[Spoilers] Episode 110 Discussion

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

This episode needed at least one dragon farting. 

•Scaredy-Fart. 
  When Arrax lays eyes on Vhagar.

•Nonchalant-Fart. 
   After Vhagar kills Arrax and flys away.

•Silent But Deadly-Fart. 
   Daemon singing to dragon, they each sniff the air and grimace. Both share an accusatory glance.

•Fartus-Interruptus.  
   Every time Otto begins to speak on the bridge at Dragonstone Syrax let’s out a different sounding fart.

•Weaponized Dragon Farting.
 Crop-dust your enemies. Non-lethal but highly demoralizing to enemy troops. May cause Dragon Stink-Pink Eye.

          Not trying to be clever here. I just feel the episode could have strongly benefited from a classic dragon fart joke. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe

[butterweedstrover]

12 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

It's not.

However...

1. Aegon is buckling under the pressure that his mother and grandfather's expectations are putting upon him...expectations that are as crazy as they are dangerous. Like they are literally creating raging tempests in teapots on the behalf of Aegon. To become the poster child for treason and treachery and war is frightening. Aegon feels so crushed by it that he is driven to tears and drink.
2. Because Aegon feels deeply unloved...and he's right. His unfortunate personality is part of the reason why he is not beloved, but his mother's paranoia and his father's sickness-induced distance only make things worse.

Those two things soften Aegon. 

And Gregor was abused as a child, it doesn't add moral ambiguity to his actions. Aegon's behavior is pure evil but more specifically, why is his family pushing him to the throne? 

Either you blame him or Alicent for pressuring him, something Alicent did ostensibly for her children but actually against them since she was mad at Rhaenyra for being what she thought was an undutiful wife. Which is more ridiculous when you consider that is what Alicent is being by standing against Rhaenyra. 

So we have a rapist king who became a rapist because his reluctant mother who loves Rhaenyra forced him on the throne to betray her best friend whom she loved to protect her children. They all come out looking like irredeemable trash. 

12 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

Also, Aegon doesn't want the Iron Throne. Like who runs away from what should've been the best day of their life? 

He does by the end of it. 

 

19 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

She might have if she found out no one supported her claim.

That would make her an even worse character. If she just gives up after the first round of rejections then her desire for the throne and her emotional capacity for vengeance would be seriously put into question. 

And if after everything she has neither of these things she isn't a human being. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by butterweedstrover

[butterweedstrover]

5 minutes ago, DMC said:

She isn't a whore in the books either.

Cool, so I guess everything Mushroom said was a lie. I don't know, giving her an assortment of lovers after her marriage with Laenor might have classified her as a 'whore' ostensibly but it would have been more interesting than this pure hearted uncontaminated unemotional dispassionate robot filled with love and compassion that we got. 

[DMC]

6 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

Cool, so I guess everything Mushroom said was a lie.

Even if literally everything Mushroom said was true, she's still not a whore.  Obviously people in-universe would call her that, but we don't have to.

[The Bard of Banefort]

At this point in the show, I'd say that Aemond is the most well-written character still alive. They gave him more depth than he had in the books, but he's still essentially the same character.

Daeron's introduction next season is going to be awkward as hell. Shouldn't they have thrown in a few lines about him in previous episodes that they could edit out if they decided to remove the character? It's going to be like on Boy Meets World when Shawn's brother that he never mentioned randomly showed up and became a main character.

[DMC]

9 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

but it would have been more interesting than this pure hearted uncontaminated unemotional dispassionate robot filled with love and compassion that we got. 

LOL, I like how you hyperbolically contradict yourself within the same sentence.  She's an unemotional dispassionate robot thats....filled with love and compassion.  M'kay.

[butterweedstrover]

Just now, DMC said:

LOL, I like how you hyperbolically contradict yourself within the same sentence.  She's an unemotional dispassionate robot thats....filled with love and compassion.  M'kay.

Yeah, like the show is doing. Thanks for catching on. 

[DMC]

4 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Daeron's introduction next season is going to be awkward as hell. Shouldn't they have thrown in a few lines about him in previous episodes that they could edit out if they decided to remove the character?

I'm assuming they weren't sure if they were going to add him to the show until after filming was done.

1 minute ago, butterweedstrover said:

Yeah, like the show is doing. Thanks for catching on. 

Only to insane partisans.

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

19 minutes ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

This episode needed at least one dragon farting. 

I agree. What about the guy who cleans the dragon stalls? What’s his life like?

[butterweedstrover]

5 minutes ago, DMC said:

Even if literally everything Mushroom said was true, she's still not a whore.  Obviously people in-universe would call her that, but we don't have to.

Yeah, and that is what I meant, the in world perception. Not whatever you feel constitutes a whore, you are not part of the equation. My point is her show behavior wouldn't even constitute a Tyrion/Robert type female 'whoring'. She is just pure and perfect. 

5 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

They gave him more depth than he had in the books.

Honest question, where? He is a thin skinned asshole who bullies other people and lets them get under his nerve. I don't see anything else going on, not even a love for his mother or brother. 

[Raksha 2014]

2 hours ago, Ingelheim said:

What's your take on Aemond not wanting to kill Luke and losing control of Vhagar?

To me it's the most significant change they've made to the book story, even more than Alicent's.

I think it gives Aemond depth but also deprives him of agency. He basically starts the DoD by accident.

I like it though, show Aemond didn't seem half as mad as his book version.

 

Aemond didn't start the DoD by accident.  He started the DoD by hunting and attacking his younger nephew on a dragon several times older and larger than the young dragon that Lucerys rode, shouting threats, riding Vhagar in close above the smaller dragon - that was Aemond's decision, no "accident" about it, a very deliberate and cruel action.  Lucerys flew Arrax as capably as he possibly could, given Vhagar's size and the weather conditions, trying to find cover; but the damage was already done, Arrax sensed Lucerys' fear, and retaliated, in defense of himself and his rider, by sending out a spout of fire toward the too-close Vhagar.  If Aemond had just meant to scare Lucerys, he'd have shouted a threat or two, and then turned Vhagar from their quarry and let Lucerys go home.  He didn't.  

Aemond meant to scare, hurt or possibly kill Lucerys; driving Vhagar too close to Arrax and Lucerys.  It was not a mistake, it was an attack.  I think he realized, as Vhagar went in for the kill, too late, the consequences of his rage; but it was still Aemond's long-simmering grudge and anger that caused him to taunt and then terrorize and attack his nephew and finally begin the Dance of Dragons with a Kinslaying act that will seal his own doom.

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

With the budget you’d think they could squeeze one little fart joke in. Just a squeaker.

 

ok I’m done.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe

[butterweedstrover]

2 minutes ago, DMC said:

 

Only to insane partisans.

Well, she show no vices that a normal person with functioning emotions would have to deal with, and yet is filled with endless compassion so that she might still be likable. 

Her best friend betrays her and not even a hint of anger. Her throne is taken and not even a hint of vengeance. Her actions are always good and kind, but that goodness with no counterbalance seems artificial and shallow.  

Making the love she shows her children come off as robotic. 

[DMC]

1 minute ago, butterweedstrover said:

My point is her show behavior wouldn't even constitute a Tyrion/Robert type female 'whoring'. She is just pure and perfect. 

Other than Mushroom's most salacious details, she does do pretty much every "whorish" thing described in the book.  She goes to a brothel with Daemon and is seduced by him.  She seduces and sleeps with Cole.  She - depicted much more openly than in the books - has three bastards.  The only thing in the books not in the show is Mushroom's account of Daemon and himself "training" her, which always sounded over the top and, even if it were true, not worth showing.  Just like the foot fetish scene.

[C.T. Phipps]

I think everyone knows that the description is Westeros' insulting perception of her. Basically, Mushroom draws a horrible picture of her by the standards of the time and the show goes with that. People act like that doesn't count, though.

Because they want to say she's a saint and perfect to complain about the Greens.

Edited October 24, 2022 by C.T. Phipps

[Minsc]

4 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

asically, Mushroom draws a horrible picture of her by the standards of the time and the show goes with that.

Does the show do anything to portray those actions as being horrible in eyes of the viewers?

[Raksha 2014]

2 hours ago, Lord of Brewtown said:

Decent episode.  Even knowing the story, the final scene had me on edge.   Eve Best is really fantastic again this episode.  Regarding the direction to make the final scene a "things escalating too fast/getting out of hand" incident - I don't hate it; but, as someone pointed out above, when you combine this with Alicen'ts misunderstanding of Viserys' ramblings, the writers are relying a little too much on 'mistakes'.   

Overall, I enjoyed this season; but, still wonder if long term the popularity of this show can be sustained with non-readers.   I'm just not sure that Lucerys' death had the impact for the common audience that most deaths in GoT had.  We didn't really see him enough.   The other problem the show still has:  not enough high points or humor.    Despite all the death and emotional lows GoT had, there was humor, and each season ended on a high of some kind (dragons born, someone proclaimed King in the North, Arya sailing away/home, Dany setting sail).   The GoT audience was on an emotional roller-coaster.   HotD has pretty much been all 'downers' - which will drag on an audience after a while.   I would think that even if you're rooting for the greens, the 'losing control' take makes the ending to this season somewhat of a downer/lessens any triumph/feeling of accomplishment/success.  

 

Lucerys death had a lot of impact for me; I thought the young actor did a great job with a small part.  However many self-doubts the young teenager (I think he was supposed to be 14) had about his future inheritance as Lord of the Tides or his fighting skills; Lucerys bore himself with confidence in the presence of his enemy (Aemond) and a hostile host (Lord Borros Baratheon) in Storm's End; and also courage, drawing his sword in answer to Aemond's threat, despite Aemond's superior skill at arms.  Lucerys was a loss to Rhaenyra and the realm; he was doing nothing wrong, and Aemond needlessly caused his death.  Lucerys is the first known innocent to die in the Dance and of course, tragically, he won't be the last.

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Raksha 2014

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, Minsc said:

Does the show do anything to portray those actions as being horrible in eyes of the viewers?

No.  Does Martin do anything to portray those actions as being horrible in the eyes of the readers?

[The Bard of Banefort]

In addition to Blacks vs. Greens, we're undoubtedly going to get a big Daemon vs. Aemond rivalry among fans, with them endlessly claiming that their guy is the most popular HOTD character. I'm going to try to enjoy the chaos. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

18 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

Yeah, and that is what I meant, the in world perception. Not whatever you feel constitutes a whore, you are not part of the equation. My point is her show behavior wouldn't even constitute a Tyrion/Robert type female 'whoring'. She is just pure and perfect. 

Honest question, where? He is a thin skinned asshole who bullies other people and lets them get under his nerve. I don't see anything else going on, not even a love for his mother or brother. 

He's protective of both Alicent and Helaena, is compensating for childhood insecurities, and is diligent in his studies. That's more than what the books gave us.