[Poll] How would you rate episode 109?

[Ran]

What'd you think?

[miyuki]

Very good episode, although ended with yet another violent scene that was not needed. 

[DMC]

I gave it a 9.  Would have gave it a ten, but had to deduct a point for the foot fetish scene, which I still can't believe is a thing.  Honestly, deducting just a point is generous.

[miyuki]

2 minutes ago, DMC said:

I gave it a 9.  Would have gave it a ten, but had to deduct a point for the foot fetish scene, which I still can't believe is a thing.  Honestly, deducting just a point is generous.

Larys having a foot fetish seems more believable than whatever mess Rhaenys is as a character. I deducted points because of the ending scene. 

[DMC]

8 minutes ago, miyuki said:

Larys having a foot fetish seems more believable than whatever mess Rhaenys is as a character. I deducted points because of the ending scene. 

I never said Larys having a foot fetish didn't make sense.

[Trebla]

My favorite episode so far and it features a theme GRRM is known for: factions within a faction.

[dsjj251]

I feel like the end scene is setting up the city's hate for dragons, and makes a lot of sense in context

[TormundsWoman]

An 8 for me. The construction was mostly good and some of it I found it outstanding as far as I’m concerned (especially in the Green Council scene). It was clear that regardless of what Alicent made of Viserys’s last speech Otto would have carried the plan he put in motion and he had the Council prepped and ready to go. Alicent is still a pawn and Rhaenys pointed it out masterfully in their conversation.

Btw awesome response to Alicent’s proposal! Little doubt what it meant too  Meleys is one amazing beast!

The scene I found underwhelming was “Looking for Aegon”. So the White Worm just kidnapped the king to stop the child abuse we just saw 30 seconds earlier. And for all her street smart, she took Otto’s word that it will stop and was caught with her pants down by Larys’ thugs with all the network she has watching all the Queens’ machinations. Her spys simply missed Larys’ plotting with Alicent to murder her. I suppose it works. I just found it a bit underwhelming.

I refuse to talk about the creepy foot fetish scene because I cannot believe they had this character go through this! Alicent just got over the old man to which her father pimped her to, and under which she had to do her wifely  duty willy-nilly. Now this. This is terrible. This woman cannot catch a fucking break.

I have more thoughts but I’d need to see the ep again.

Oh, and Aemond wanting the throne for himself is so on par with his character. An ambitious young man if ever there was a Targaryen!
 

Healena told everyone about the boards but no one listens to her!!! Was Meleys the beast and it was not a reference to Blood and Cheese(?) who knows.

Edited October 17, 2022 by TormundsWoman

[The hairy bear]

I was very disappointed with this one. The green council was probably the scene I was anticipating the most in this season, and it was kinda meh. The endinga also didn't work for me. Just a five.

[IFR]

I gave this episode a 5. There were quite a few problems, but what really bothered me was the end.

Rhaenys casually massacres potentially dozens of people. And for what? To stare down her opponents? She apparently has mercy on them for whatever reason. But once again, this is immediately after she murders lots of people. All of those men, women and children in that crowd.

There was absolutely no point in her actions.

The writers have a frustrating habit of putting in shocking scenes to engage the audience, but these scenes tend to be completely nonsensical. It's really harming this show.

[Ser Not Appearing]

Another excellent episode overall with a gigantic wart at the end. Drama with the dragon breaking through blah blah blah, nice stare down, fine ... you get a cool scene. But the idea should wouldn't have simply killed them all is asinine and their explanation post-episode is frankly embarrassing.

They knew people would recognize the stupidity and the explanation is so incredibly strained that it lands with a thud. The decision rivals anything D&D did in the final few seasons of GOT. It's a case in point of how bad the show structures storytelling ever since they got past scene-by scene and conversation by conversation source material. It's a scene at the cost of sense and I despise it. I pray to God GRRM doesn't defend it.

Aaaaanyway, I hate that moment, as I hated the end of last episode, but it simply can't detract from an otherwise great episode. You pretty much have to accept this nonsense at this point. We've got years of proof on that front. This one is a 9, I think. I enjoyed the tone and pacing thoroughly.

Larys having a foot fetish, btw, and (even worse) a foot fetish that Allicent participates in (and is familiar with and had been participating in for quite some time) is hilariously dumb but it's so dumb it's almost excusable. They want him to do something other than stomping around, whispering and furrowing his brow, I guess. HBO is gonna HBO. I almost can't complain because, again, it's so outrageous that it's almost a caricature of what people expect from HBO.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Ser Not Appearing

[TormundsWoman]

14 minutes ago, IFR said:

The writers have a frustrating habit of putting in shocking scenes to engage the audience, but these scenes tend to be completely nonsensical. It's really harming this show

Do you really think it’s nonsensical?

I mean the reason in showing a character that I personally like and consider one of the “better” ones as a person who thrashed that whole population gathered at the pit, is to prove a point: no one, not even someone like Rhaenys will shy from using her dragon power on anyone who’s threatening or in her way once it runs against her purpose. Not exactly sure how else she’d have gotten her dragon out of the pit. These people were at Aegon’s coronation and they were in her way.

Also Alicent specifically restricted her and Meleys. Told her to her face too she needed Rhaenyra to know that the scales are balanced dragonwise. So Rhaenys chose a side and made a powerful statement.

I think people forget the Blacks are not “good” in the sense we look at good vs bad. They simply have the better claim at the throne, by the in universe rules.

anyway, that’s my two cents.

[Ser Not Appearing]

Is it nonsensical? Let me preface this by saying that I might use definitive language because it's definitive in my opinion ... but others are allowed to disagree and that's the entire point of discussing.

Yes. Yes, it was nonsensical. Instead of ending the threat to herself and her loved ones and whatever else she holds dear in the world, she is now personally responsible for the continuance of that threat and it's likely execution to at least some of those loved ones.

She didn't choose not to kill a couple of people. She chose to kill thousands through war, some of whom are people who she wouldn't want to die. I'm sure she'll argue against war next episode and when she does I'll be thankful that they're at least consistent in that small way... but she knows the players involved and she knows exactly what is going to happen. She has been built as the most perceptive and the one who truly knows how the world works. For me to now accept that she would be so naive as to think that she could actually help avoid war is an insulting proposition from the writers.

Of course it's nonsensical.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Ser Not Appearing

[SaltPoster]

I gave it a 5 and I think I'm being too generous.

I thought they were following the books in this series? The green council scene was completely butchered and seemed to be essentially glossed over.

Alicent's character makes no sense. She's schizo or something.

The opening scene with the score was overwrought and reminded me of the worst of GoT, though at least the ending of GoT was SUPPOSED to be epic so the score made some sense.

This episode should have been an absolute killer. Instead it was overwrought, tedious, and then veered into sheer ridiculousness.

 

I owe an apology to D&D. This series is a mess.

[BlackLightning]

My only issue with this episode is that it should have been longer.

The Small Council scene should've been longer with more discussion and debate. Orwyle agreed too quickly for my tastes and it would've been a good idea to work the blood oath scene into the story somehow.

It also should've taken the Greens a lot more time to:

1. find Aegon...needle in a haystack
2. exert total control of the city

The citywide arrests and executions of all those who would support Rhaenyra and the seizure or destruction of their property should have taken a while. The tedious mystery of what Tyland Lannister did with the treasury in the books should have been fully elaborated upon. Thus, Viserys' corpse should've been left alone in his room to rot for a longer period of time. They appear to be saving the defection of Westerling, Darklyn and Arryk for the next episode...which is weird but fine.

They really whitewashed the Greens in this episode and most of it was probably unintentional given that the episode was too short and was moving too fast.

1 hour ago, SaltPoster said:

Alicent's character makes no sense. She's schizo or something.

That's intentional.

They went with "nervous wreck of a soccer mom in a tiara" vibe instead of going with the evil stepmother trope.

[Ser Graymax]

7/10

Slow start, mediocre mid story with an "explosive" finish.  Sounds like a cheap bourbon or bad sex (which I guess did occur).

Rhaenys could have avoided the war right there but kept from it for her morals??  Give me a break.  I guess the peasants meant nothing to her.  Well, gotta set up the rest of the story somehow.   I did love the scene though.

Would you have bent the knee to get out of there and fight later or let yourself be butchered?

Keep hoping for Westerling to do a daemon on Cole.  Almost happened.............almost.

[Ser Yorick Ampersand]

Lord Beesbury's death by the known murderer Ser Crisping 'The Ageless' was beyond comical. 

The long, boring search for Aegon felt like a Naruto filler episode. So pointless. They have to fill running time somehow.

Why use the White Worm nickname if she isn't white in race nor hair? It's like casting a short skinny dude to play the mountain.

Why the foot fetish? really? Did Tarantino direct this episode? What more pointless scenes do we need...

More and more random black people appearing everywhere. One wonders what happened to all of them by the time of GOT? Is this Westeros or Netflixeros?

The pacing was terrible. The worst yet, and that is saying something.

The ending was shit. Non-sense, didn't make Crispin 'kingmaker', Rhaenys is now a mass murderer of inocent people like Daenerys, and she could have burned them all right there but didn't because she forgot to say dracaris.

What a shitshow.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Ser Yorick Ampersand

[C.T. Phipps]

https://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/2022/10/house-of-dragon-1x09-green-council.html

HOUSE OF THE DRAGON 1x09 "THE GREEN COUNCIL" is easily the best of the episodes so far. I think this will be a controversial decision but it's how I feel. After a lot of issues with previous episodes, I think this masterfully builds on what has come before and sets up the conflict between the Blacks and the Greens that will hopefully begin next book.

The premise is that King Viserys has finally died and Alicent believes that he named Aegon his heir on his deathbed. She proceeds to go to the Small Council and announce this stunning fact, only to find out they're already planning on naming Aegon the heir regardless of the king's wishes. Furthermore, they plan on killing Rhaenyra and her heirs (as well as Daemon) because this was always their plan.

Alicent is appalled by this, which is kind of ridiculous because Otto has been stating that Rhaenyra would have to kill her children for Aegon's entire life. It apparently never occurred to Alicent in all this time that the reverse would be true. However, the wheels are already in motion for Aegon II's usurpation and begin with Ser Criston Cole murdering a member of the Small Council. The fact Aegon II is drunk in some brothel or child fighting pit (seriously, King's Landing is the Gotham City of fantasy settings) and can't be found is not enough to delay their treason.

I'm going to state that I think all the people complaining about the Greens getting vilified and the Blacks getting whitewashed missed the point that this provides honest-to-God stakes for the conflict. Aegon II is utterly unworthy of the throne and someone who will only bring misery and death to those around him. The fact he's controlled by Otto and his deluded mother doesn't make it any better. It means that we actually care how this conflict ends and I think that's important for this kind of story.

I really like how awful Otto is and he's not even competent at his scheming. One of the first things he does is start hanging Great Lords of the realm when they refuse to bend the knee. The Lannisters knew this was a mistake when they threw Ned in the dungeon and compelled his obedience through threats to his family. He's an obvious, foul, and unpleasant manipulator that only got as far as he did thanks to his daughter's better politicking. Hell, he's only Hand of the King because of her and Larys working together.

The real MVP of this episode, though, is Princess Rhaenys. The Queen who Never was is being held under house arrest as they try to figure out if she supports Princess Rhanyra's claim or not. Rhaenyra really doesn't want to, suspecting her of killing Laenor, but the fact is that she's also betrothed her children to Rhaenyra's. There's also the fact that the Hightowers are scheming, grasping, and repulsive upstarts dancing on her cousin's grave. She gets both a silly and awesome scene at the end where I can only think, "You are going to regret not saying a single word here."

I also liked the depiction of Aemond this episode as we find out he's an erudite, serious, and well-trained man ready to serve the kingdom. In other words, everything his brother is not. I think he even felt out Criston Cole over whether it would be justified to murder his brother but the traitor Kingsguardsman just sort of deliberately ignored it. One of the rare subtle scenes between both and I think worked really well.

Some people are going to be obsessed with the whole "foot fetish" thing but I actually think it actually serves a useful in-story purpose. Alicent has cloaked herself in the "Madonna/Whore" complex with her serving as the holy good one to the evil sexualized Rhaenyra. The fact she's forced to somewhat prostitute herself to Larys to work against her own father is an important bit of characterization for showing she's not any better. Indeed, Rhaenys has her number that she doesn't want to break free but put a window in her prison.

In conclusion, I really enjoyed this episode and think it may be my favorite all. The scheming and firm commitment to just what a scummy bunch of monsters the Greens are, finally gives us a reason to care that they be kept from the throne at all costs. We also get some solid politicking and brutal atrocities. If they can keep this up through the Dance then I'll be all over this series for years to come.

10/10

Edited October 17, 2022 by C.T. Phipps

[TormundsWoman]

11 hours ago, Ser Not Appearing said:

Is it nonsensical? Let me preface this by saying that I might use definitive language because it's definitive in my opinion ... but others are allowed to disagree and that's the entire point of discussing.

Yes. Yes, it was nonsensical. Instead of ending the threat to herself and her loved ones and whatever else she holds dear in the world, she is now personally responsible for the continuance of that threat and it's likely execution to at least some of those loved ones.

She didn't choose not to kill a couple of people. She chose to kill thousands through war, some of whom are people who she wouldn't want to die. I'm sure she'll argue against war next episode and when she does I'll be thankful that they're at least consistent in that small way... but she knows the players involved and she knows exactly what is going to happen. She has been built as the most perceptive and the one who truly knows how the world works. For me to now accept that she would be so naive as to think that she could actually help avoid war is an insulting proposition from the writers.

Of course it's nonsensical.

Yes, quite a few are thinking that on this forum. It's what I got that from the other thread

When I asked last night, I didn't realize it was a hot subject there and thought it was worth discussing, and I usually post on the polls threads first. I clearly was totally behind in topics that sparked debate on the forum!

[Corvinus85]

5 hours ago, Ser Yorick Ampersand said:

More and more random black people appearing everywhere. One wonders what happened to all of them by the time of GOT? Is this Westeros or Netflixeros?

You keep saying this. Who is it this time that bothers you, the black girl that works for Mysaria?

Have you read the books? There are various women of color in places like Flea Bottom and the Street of Silk. In the main novels we have Alayaya, a Summer Islander who owns her own brothel. GoT showed some random black women in the brothel scenes from back in seasons 1,2 and probably others.