[Poll] How would you rate episode 109?

[Howland Reed]

I gave the episode a 5, maybe that is a bit too low, I'm not sure.  For the first 3 or 4 episodes I was quite enthralled by the show and eager to see what was going to happen next but the later half have fallen off for me.  Its hard to even describe the reasons why, I think it is many things to be honest.  This is also coming from someone who hasn't read the source material only asoiaf.   Someone early said they love to put in a lot of shock moments that just don't need to be there in my opinion, I definitely agree with that as 1 aspect.

I will say the production value is extremely strong and while I may not think its the greatest story telling, it is somewhat entertaining.  I'm not regretting my watching of the show, its just that it is very far from the great shows that have been on television.

 

(On a side note for another small detail for me in many of these episodes is the timing on events - obviously this is extremely ticky tacky, I totally get why many people would not give 2 shits about this but for some reason it just takes me out.  The example in this episode is when Rheanys busts through with the dragon.  I'm not referring to her doing this spectacle, [which was a bit much for me truth be told], but rather how she was able to get her dragon, don that armor and fly in there within that small frame of time.  Obviously we don't know the exact amount of time taking place, but we are there for the whole scene, and it seems like it was 15 minutes or less by the time she left.  Obviously very ticky tacky - but for some reason my mind just sees these things and says how did that even happen.)

Edited October 17, 2022 by Howland Reed

[Dragon in the North]

5/10. For me, this was the worst episode in the entire GOT universe. After the last two episodes, which were fantastic, I thought HotD was finally finding its legs and was starting to live up to its potential. This episode dashed my hopes a bit, but maybe the finale can right the ship.

[RumHam]

3 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

5/10. For me, this was the worst episode in the entire GOT universe.

Lets not say thing we can't take back... 

My memory is fuzzy but it can't be worse than the episode explaining how Arya got her tattoos. Or that one where Roose couldn't raise his flag above the rebuilt Winterfell until his servants killed that pesky fly. 

 

[Dragon in the North]

21 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Lets not say thing we can't take back... 

My memory is fuzzy but it can't be worse than the episode explaining how Arya got her tattoos. Or that one where Roose couldn't raise his flag above the rebuilt Winterfell until his servants killed that pesky fly. 

 

Is the Roose thing a Breaking Bad reference?

[RumHam]

18 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

Is the Roose thing a Breaking Bad reference?

Yes. 

The Arya tattos thing was also along those lines. 

[Dragon in the North]

6 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Yes. 

The Arya tattos thing was also along those lines. 

Oh, I don’t remember the tattoo part. It’s been a while since I’ve watched.

[butterweedstrover]

Ok, look. No one wants to be broken record, especially not one that's going to rain on the parade of others, dampening the euphoria that fans feel over a show they hold dear to their hearts. 

And as someone else said, this episode might have been custom built for me or others who had complained about a lack of nuance. And others who I happen to agree with quite often, those who take issue with the episode, decry the whitewashing of Alicent's character and the making of her into an impotent pawn of the men in her life. 

So I watched it. Just finished the episode. And it is remarkable, that even among its detractors, no one seems to care about how fundamentally broken the script is. So much so that it brings an otherwise phenomenal production down to levels that are to their core horrendous. And I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings, but that is what it was, horrendous. 

Episode 9 itself is the climax of all the haphazard writing flaws and favoritism which built up to this disaster. But I find it peculiar that no one seems to be discussing what about it is so awful. And to do that we need to look at what it did great. 

Like the rest of the season, the production value was incredible. The tone, the music, the gothic intro flush with candlelight really spoke to a dedication by the team. And it was not, like Rings of Power, just beautiful visuals masking an empty narrative, but cinematography that enhanced the story. 

Seeing the conspirators gather around late at night provided a tension lesser shows would find elusive. And the acting is on a scale I see only in the most prestigious television. All around the actors provide an emotional sophistication that speaks to some greater themes involving fear, anticipation, loyalty, conflict, and love. 

So really, it should be a homerun. All the minor quibbles about why Rhaenys did or did not finish the family off, or whether Cole did or did not mean to kill Beesbury are just that, irrelevant asides to the greater plot that is being fleshed out. But alas on even the most shallow introspection this beautiful tapestry falls apart. 

The characters behave in such a way that appears nuanced and emotionally intricate, but instead of underlining some internal strife it signifies mental schizophrenia.  

Now I have no problem with people diagnosed with schizophrenia. They are all perfectly fine people. It becomes an issue however when the characters are meant to be perceived in a serious manner, and when those characters are the primary movers of the plot. 

Alicent is not a real person anymore. To say she is whitewashed is to say she has been gifted with moral clarity, which she has not. I don't understand why people here or elsewhere pretend the Greens are behaving in some rational manner, or that they are reacting to some personal motivations that are worthy of interpretation, because they are not.   

The premise of the conflict was that Alicent, worried for the safety of her children, sought to prevent Rhaenyra from ascending to the throne. And why? Because the realm would not accept Rhaenyra. 

Alicent is sold to us as a dedicated wife. And as a friend who must now, for sake of her children, go against the person whom she has shared her most private of thoughts with since childhood. 

This is not a rivalry, but it is the premonition of one. And it manifests itself in the form of despise, not reluctance. This character shows not reluctance but rather a commitment to see the downfall of her best friend. Even at the expense of her own children. 

And who is Rhaenyra? What is she? We don't know because this 'rivalry' is not acknowledged on her end. She provides endless niceties and seems oblivious to the fact that this person who she called friend wants her all but dead. 

And against the wishes of who does she, Alicent, plan this betrayal? Against those of her husband who she works to undermine at every turn. We are assured she is dedicated to him but yet she only manipulates his weakness and health for her own ends. She knows many times over Viserys does not want Aegon to be king, and that is specifically why she attempts to exploit his suffering, so that she might rule in a manner opposite of how he would conduct affairs. Both in the removal of Valyrian insignia and by the ostracization of Rhaenyra's children. 

Why is she doing this? It's too late to figure out why because by episode 8 this 'rivalry' is concluded with heartfelt apologies. Because the king pleaded for it, and because Rhaenyra acknowledged Alicent as a dedicated wife to the king. 

 

I want everyone to read the bold again. Alicent, whose only purpose in the plot has been to undermine the will of her husband, ceases to do so because she is told she is a dedicated wife and so she becomes a dedicated wife. She moves past her inexplicable hatred because that which she is not becomes what she is. 

Now I want to provide a definition for Schizophrenia- 

"a long-term mental disorder of a type involving a breakdown in the relation between thought, emotion, and behavior, leading to faulty perception, inappropriate actions and feelings, withdrawal from reality and personal relationships into fantasy and delusion, and a sense of mental fragmentation."  

Thought: "I am a good wife." 

Emotion: "I hate Rhaenyra" 

Behavior: "I love Rhaenyra"  

She disassociates the belief that she is a good wife with her emotional objective to see Rhaenyra destroyed. 

And why again is she to see Rhaenyra destroyed? For the sake of her children, whom she loves. And why again does she not show hesitance in seeing Rhaenyra destroyed? Because she wants Rhaenyra destroyed. She needs her children alive and wants her best friend to suffer for being free which she herself is not because she is a dedicated wife stuck in a loveless marriage. 

CHILDREN need to be safe so RHAENYRA needs to be destroyed. RHAENYRA is a threat so CHILDREN aren't safe. Being an UNDEDICATED wife makes RHAENYRA a threat to CHILDREN. Alicent hates RHAENYRA for being UNDEDICATED so to protect her CHILDREN she becomes an UNDEDICATED wife to Viserys.  

Then in episode eight she realizes for her thoughts to align with her emotions her behavior has to alter. First she disowns her eldest son and second she mends ties with Rhaenyra. Now she is a loyal wife and friend. 

Putting aside the jumbled speech Viserys gives on his death bed which is atrocious writing in of itself, lets take for granted Alicent believes his dying wish was to see Aegon on the throne. Now in order to be loyal to her husband she must be disloyal to her friend and forgive the son she had just disowned. 

So she goes to the council chamber and is SHOCKED to find out their was a plot underway to overthrow Rhaenyra.   

Thought: "I am a good wife." 

Emotion: "I love Rhaenyra." 

Behavior: "I hate Rhaenyra." 

Here we come to what the Bard was talking about in reference to Alicent being whitewashed. Rather than be an active member of the conspiracy she is now a passive bystander supporting it through her behavior but not through any emotional consent. 

This means Alicent no longer has agency, she is no longer affecting the plot but implicitly condoning the coup through inaction. Therefore she is given (we presume) some moral capital by being reluctant to go against Rhaenyra and is given further goodwill by having her actions be derived by her self-perception as a good wife. 

That would work except her reluctance in overthrowing Rhaenyra does not come from her love for Rhaenyra. Because the reason she loves Rhaenyra post episode 8 was to reconcile her self-perception as a dedicated spouse to her behavior as an undedicated spouse. 

She hated Rhaenyra for over decade without reluctance. She was not conflicted in this hatred because she a.) rejected offers of protection for her children and b.) schemed against her own husband. Rhaenyra never acknowledged the rivalry as she was psychologically immune to the concept of her best friend hating her. 

So when they reconcile, Rhaenyra herself does not alter course. Whereas Alicent sought to destroy Rhaenyra the opposite was never true so during the toast there was nothing, either politically or privately, that Rhaenyra needed to change. 

In this episode Alicent: "sexually appeases a psychopath" and "establishes a known rapist as heir to the seven kingdoms." She has agency, the problem is that she is a schizophrenic so her emotional rejection works in tandem with her active participation. They do not signify internal conflict but a coherent mental imbalance. Her support of abject evil is not in spite of her emotional reluctance, but because of it.      

Now not only do the Greens' lack of motivation result in a general psychopathy throughout their ranks, but the blacks all suffer from too many motivations, as they have no internal conflict themselves because they are faced with deciding between morality and personal gain or immorality and personal loss making allies of every character within the group huddled around Dragonstone, depriving their philosophical differences of any outlet.  

It's a 0/10 from me. Not because it was an abject failure of television, but because it was an abject failure in writing that had the unintentional affect of endorsing despicable logic that will forever haunt the show, if the show is to have any future. It has so thoroughly crippled all the story potential that no advanced technique will be able to undo the mess this episode put a rubber stamp behind.  

Edited October 18, 2022 by butterweedstrover

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Dragon in the North said:

Oh, I don’t remember the tattoo part. It’s been a while since I’ve watched.

That was a reference to Lost Episode 3.9 "Stranger in a Strange Land."  Which is indeed pretty objectively the nadir of Lost - especially in terms of the absurd flashback.  But Breaking Bad's "The Fly," coincidentally episode 3.10, is one of the greatest bottle episodes ever and certainly not the worst episode of the series.  How dare you Ser @RumHam..how DARE you!

[Heartofice]

3 hours ago, butterweedstrover said:

In this episode Alicent: "sexually appeases a psychopath" and "establishes a known rapist as heir to the seven kingdoms." She has agency, the problem is that she is a schizophrenic so her emotional rejection works in tandem with her active participation. They do not signify internal conflict but a coherent mental imbalance. Her support of abject evil is not in spite of her emotional reluctance, but because of it.      

meh, I think using terms like schizophrenic when the actual term is 'conflicted' is your mistake. This is a show taken over a long time period and people change and they don't always act in one simple direct way, and can have multiple motivations and feeling that don't align with each other.

Alicent for instance is someone who wants to protect her children and her own safety, whilst also not wanting to think of herself as a bad person, and who actually does love Rhaenrya as a friend and doesn't really want to hurt her. 

I really love the level of conflict going on just inside Alicent actually. 

[TeethGrinder]

By far the worst episode and the botched/convoluted endings are really starting to hurt my opinion of the show. 4/10 and that's pretty much down to how beautiful things were at times - Especially Aegon's coronation. 

By my count there's been five episodes where they've forced in some unnecessary drama or spectacle at the end of episodes and every time I feel it's undercut some of the great work that's been done.

• Episode 3 - Daemon's ridiculous solo charge and that Jon Snow level plot armour. 
• Episode 5 - Criston straight up murdering Joffrey Lonmouth at a wedding with zero repercussions.
• Episode 7 - Laenor's fake out death which caused as many problems as it solved.
• Episode 8 - Alicent misinterpreting Viserys' words giving undermining all the previous tension to become the core drive for crowning Aegon.
• Episode 9 - Rhaenys killing hundreds of people and then dooming thousands more by not killing the usurpers. 

It's like they really didn't have confidence in the source material to provide satisfactory conclusions and while it's true that it does lack the dramatic cliff-hangers than ASOAIF has I still don't think these have done anything to improve the overall story, quite the opposite.

There's going to be plenty of spectacle once the Dance starts, they should have allowed this season to be the build - The calm before the storm. I think that's what most people wanted and when they've done it it's what people have liked. Especially after the particularly nonsensical Marvel movies that were seasons 6-8 of Thrones.

[TeethGrinder]

11 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

5/10. For me, this was the worst episode in the entire GOT universe.

I gave it a lower rating but let's not get crazy. 

[butterweedstrover]

4 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Alicent for instance is someone who wants to protect her children and her own safety, whilst also not wanting to think of herself as a bad person, and who actually does love Rhaenrya as a friend and doesn't really want to hurt her. 
 

That would be an interesting story, and it almost writes itself. Having someone conflicted over her children, her friendship, and her duty as a wife and daughter. 

But that's not the one they went with. The show does nothing to convince us she is concerned about her children, her husband, or her best friend since these latent desires are consequences of each other and not some fundamental emotion separate from one another. 

Alicent loves her children. Alicent loves Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra would divide the realm putting her children in danger. Alicent works to defeat Rhaenyra. Alicent is now committed in seeing her best friend fail. Alicent is not reluctant in this course because Rhaenyra is an undedicated wife who raises bastards that would divide the realm. In her lack of reluctance she chooses to overlook any offer that might protect her children since that would also protect Rhaenyra's claim. 

The conflict is not present because there needs to be two separate feelings. Love for Rhaenyra and love for her children. Instead she shows neither because the tertiary factor, that of Rhaenyra's potential missteps as befits her station take precedent over both. 

And what is at the core of this misstep? A lack of dedication to her husband. In response Alicent begins to do the same by manipulating Viserys to go against his own will. So now she is neither in support of her friendship, her children, or her husband. 

There are no grounds to sympathize with her objective because her objective have no moral basis. Even the worst villains might be given depth by fleshing out their motivations. One could do evil to save their children. One could do evil for sake of friendship. One could do evil for sake of love. 

We understand each and follow each. But Alicent is being deprived of that depth since her opponent, Rhaenyra, has been deprived of any serious emotional disturbance. Rhaenyra does not react to her best friend trying to get her killed, she doesn't actually behave in a manner that would isolate support as queen, and she is dedicated to her father's word. 

They wanted to make Alicent multifaceted but the core of her character, the overthrowing of Rhaenyra, cannot be given serious motivation if Rhaenyra is not permitted any flaws. 

And this doesn't just ruin the Greens who are now populated exclusively by psychopaths (and this includes Otto) but it leaves the Blacks as a colorless amalgamation of bland characters. 

Why? Because if the Blacks have too many motivations that remove any internal debate from decision making, the different philosophical attributes of their characters have no outlet to manifest leaving in its wake an empty person with no distinguishing traits. 

Everyone around that table in Dragonstone have a moral reason and a material reason for escalating the conflict which means mentally they are all on the same page, even more so than the justice league. And that is going to kill the spirit of the show in the long term.  

[Ranger Kragin]

On 10/17/2022 at 4:31 AM, DMC said:

I gave it a 9.  Would have gave it a ten, but had to deduct a point for the foot fetish scene, which I still can't believe is a thing.  Honestly, deducting just a point is generous.

The foot fetish is THE only believable thing of the character, honestly. There is no indication whatsoever about what moves him towards the Queen's cause or anything he does. He's a mystery in the book, which is great for a book but less in a show. An obscure obsession/fetish explains a thing or two to me.

[DMC]

20 minutes ago, Ranger Kragin said:

The foot fetish is THE only believable thing of the character, honestly. There is no indication whatsoever about what moves him towards the Queen's cause or anything he does. He's a mystery in the book, which is great for a book but less in a show. An obscure obsession/fetish explains a thing or two to me.

Again, Larys having a foot fetish is not what I can't believe is a thing.  Indeed, "the clubfoot" having a foot fetish comes off as rather trite and tacky.  What I can't believe is a thing is the show feeling the need to show Larys jacking off to Alicent's feet.  I really don't need to see that.

[Caligula_K3]

I'll give this one another 6, which I think is being generous. I feel like I've said enough every week about why the show is mainly not working for me: I don't need to give a long spiel. But as much as the cinematography and music is excellent, the lack of character development for a majority of characters has really caught up with the show and made it hard to care about anyone but Alicent and Rhaenyra, or to understand the motivations of most of the cast. How nice would it have been to have a scene of Otto and Tyland Lannister shooting the shit at some point this season, like that scene we got in GoT season 1 of Robert talking about his glory days with Barristan and Jaime? Scenes like this give life to the characters, expand on the motivations of minor ones like Tyland, and as a bonus, show there's more to a character like Otto than just political maneuvering, giving you a sense of what drives his political ambitions. They could also help break up the monotonous overly serious tone of the show.

I guess at least they tried with Larys, but... foot fetish was really not the interesting motivation I was looking for.

And then the pacing continues to be just really weird. We've skipped over so much that seems important this season, or zoomed from marriage to affair to death to re-marriage in three episodes. Mysaria has barely got any screentime since episode 2. But we get twenty minutes of a low-stakes search for Aegon, in what should be a climactic episode? I could at least appreciate this as being an attempt to give character development to the twins, but they'll probably both be dead by next episode.

[Ranger Kragin]

3 hours ago, DMC said:

Again, Larys having a foot fetish is not what I can't believe is a thing.  Indeed, "the clubfoot" having a foot fetish comes off as rather trite and tacky.  What I can't believe is a thing is the show feeling the need to show Larys jacking off to Alicent's feet.  I really don't need to see that.

There's so many things I don't need to see displayed in full sight, such a C-Section without anesthesia with rough hands digging deep in an open, bleeding womb. But, this is where i know it's HBO in somewhat GOT I'm watching.

This is exactly their thing.

 

[DMC]

4 minutes ago, Ranger Kragin said:

But, this is where i know it's HBO in somewhat GOT I'm watching.

This is exactly their thing.

That's really not the point.  It's not like the scene was very explicit at all - could've gotten away with that on tons of channels/outlets these days.  I just don't think it fits the show, is excessive, and really absurd characterization for Larys.  I wasn't a fan of Aegon jacking off at the window either, but at least that was done to give us an idea of his wanton character.  They had already heavily implied Alicent was trading sexual favors - or at least the promise of sexual favors - for information with Larys.  That should've been enough.  Again, I don't need to see that shit.

[Annara Snow]

On 10/17/2022 at 6:13 AM, Ser Not Appearing said:

Is it nonsensical? Let me preface this by saying that I might use definitive language because it's definitive in my opinion ... but others are allowed to disagree and that's the entire point of discussing.

Yes. Yes, it was nonsensical. Instead of ending the threat to herself and her loved ones and whatever else she holds dear in the world, she is now personally responsible for the continuance of that threat and it's likely execution to at least some of those loved ones.

She didn't choose not to kill a couple of people. She chose to kill thousands through war, some of whom are people who she wouldn't want to die. I'm sure she'll argue against war next episode and when she does I'll be thankful that they're at least consistent in that small way... but she knows the players involved and she knows exactly what is going to happen. She has been built as the most perceptive and the one who truly knows how the world works. For me to now accept that she would be so naive as to think that she could actually help avoid war is an insulting proposition from the writers.

Of course it's nonsensical.

You know what is nonsensical? This whole argument.

What a clear case of fans treating characters as if they have read the books and know everything that happens and will happen, how devastating the war would be and that most of them would die.

So, you say, with the hindsight is 20/20 attitude, Rhaenys should have burned them and become the most notorious person in Westeros, a kinslayer and kingslayer (even as a usurper, Aegon was still crowned) - to potentially stop a war?

...Which she wouldn't have stopper anyway. Great idea! Let's burn them...and that will work out just fine.  Lord Hobert Hightower will be totally OK with the murder of his brother and niece and great-nephews/nieces and won't make any trouble. Ditto the other Council members like Tyland Lannister and the Grand Maester Orwyle and others, they won't react knowing that they are already sure to be executed for treason if the Greens don't win. None of them would crown little Jaehaerys and put themselves forward as regent/Hand, drawing support from the widespread outrage against that evil kinslaying woman who was just seen stomping who knows how many people in the Dragonpit before burning the newly crowned King and his family? She's on Rhaenyra's side! See who you are supporting if you support her!...oh, but now the Greens would have just Daeron as dragonrider when he gets from Oldtown, so the Blacks would be likely to win and the war would likely be shorter, so better solution than what ends up happening, right? Since there are few worse possible outcomes than what did end up happening...I guess so, but your argument is predicated on Rhaenys being able to see the future.

Finally, one more question: do you also support Otto's plan to murder Rhaenyra, Daemon and all their kids? Let's say, if he had a good and efficient way to do it successfully?

By the same token, successful murders of the Blacks is just as likely to prevent a civil war. (Actually more so, if he managed to have them all murdered, not even sparing the little children. )

 

ETA: also great point by @mistquill on Twitter:

Quote

It could even be that Rhaenyra makes Rhaenys her #1 enemy now in a weird three-way struggle wanting to distance herself from the kinslaying rumors and feeling threatened by an ex-claimant to the Throne pulling off a hugely political power play like that

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Annara Snow

[Ser Not Appearing]

Practically speaking, and assuming characters act in a way that is consistent with how they have been portrayed, of course the Blacks should have Rhaenyra and all of her children killed.

It's not about what I want as a matter of rooting interest, it's about internal consistency in the narrative. This show, in many and sundry ways, often chooses spectacle over consistency. They rely on that spectacle and strongly communicated emotional markers to cover for the absence of more intricately written portrayals of events and it is, in my opinion, a subpar, aggravating and nonsensical approach to storytelling.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Ser Not Appearing

[Annara Snow]

6 hours ago, butterweedstrover said:

That would be an interesting story, and it almost writes itself. Having someone conflicted over her children, her friendship, and her duty as a wife and daughter. 

But that's not the one they went with. The show does nothing to convince us she is concerned about her children, her husband, or her best friend since these latent desires are consequences of each other and not some fundamental emotion separate from one another. 

Alicent loves her children. Alicent loves Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra would divide the realm putting her children in danger. Alicent works to defeat Rhaenyra. Alicent is now committed in seeing her best friend fail. Alicent is not reluctant in this course because Rhaenyra is an undedicated wife who raises bastards that would divide the realm. In her lack of reluctance she chooses to overlook any offer that might protect her children since that would also protect Rhaenyra's claim. 

The conflict is not present because there needs to be two separate feelings. Love for Rhaenyra and love for her children. Instead she shows neither because the tertiary factor, that of Rhaenyra's potential missteps as befits her station take precedent over both. 

And what is at the core of this misstep? A lack of dedication to her husband. In response Alicent begins to do the same by manipulating Viserys to go against his own will. So now she is neither in support of her friendship, her children, or her husband. 

There are no grounds to sympathize with her objective because her objective have no moral basis. Even the worst villains might be given depth by fleshing out their motivations. One could do evil to save their children. One could do evil for sake of friendship. One could do evil for sake of love. 

We understand each and follow each. But Alicent is being deprived of that depth since her opponent, Rhaenyra, has been deprived of any serious emotional disturbance. Rhaenyra does not react to her best friend trying to get her killed, she doesn't actually behave in a manner that would isolate support as queen, and she is dedicated to her father's word. 

They wanted to make Alicent multifaceted but the core of her character, the overthrowing of Rhaenyra, cannot be given serious motivation if Rhaenyra is not permitted any flaws. 

And this doesn't just ruin the Greens who are now populated exclusively by psychopaths (and this includes Otto) but it leaves the Blacks as a colorless amalgamation of bland characters. 

Why? Because if the Blacks have too many motivations that remove any internal debate from decision making, the different philosophical attributes of their characters have no outlet to manifest leaving in its wake an empty person with no distinguishing traits. 

Everyone around that table in Dragonstone have a moral reason and a material reason for escalating the conflict which means mentally they are all on the same page, even more so than the justice league. And that is going to kill the spirit of the show in the long term.  

This is so funny. The same thing happens on Twitter all the time. Green stans complaining that Rhaenyra and the Blacks been "whitewashed",  while Black stans are complaining that Alicent and the Greens have been "whitewashed". It's hilarious. (BTW, I'm seeing worse takes here than on Twitter. That's quite an accomplishment.)

I don't know how it's possible to have watched the show and come to the conclusion that Rhaenyra has no flaws and, even weirder, that "everyone on the Green side is a psychopath"?! What? Not a single person on the show apart from Larys has been portrayed as a psychopath. And everyone on the show has been fleshed out and given sympathetic and relatable traits - making me care about the whole lot of them a lot more than in the books.

Rhaenyra isn't being "Maegor with tits" and ripping people's tongues out or feeding them to her dragon, just like Alicent isn't evil stepmother/ruthless social climber because it makes for a much better story if the characters aren't horrible to begin with and people can relate and care about them and root for them, and if Rhaenyra only goes darker and really breaks bad after the war starts and she suffers real losses.

Even so, so far she's already shown a worrying tendency to not care about the wellbeing of anyone other than the people she loves. From teenage Rhaenyra not being even interested in whether one of her suitors just got killed by another, who was a kid and would probably be traumatised as hell: to adult Rhaenyra not giving a damn that her 10 year half brother just lost an eye and asking the king that he be sharply questioned about the identity of the person spreading "rumors" about her sons' parentage (which Viserys had just declared treason and threatened to  cut people's tongues for it, so basically, come on kid, get someone into the mortal danger kind of trouble now); to, of course, agreeing that future husband murders a random servant on Driftmark so the two of them could marry and her first husband could get his happy ending too. (Who cares about servants and common people in general, right? They're not real people.)

And this is me saying as someone who really likes Rhaenyra and doesn't begrudge her for her messy personal life or for trying to pass off her bastards as trueborn (I get it) or call her spoiled or entitled (they're all nobles and she was heir to the crown, what do you expect?), which many, many do.

Even if you really believe the Blacks have been portrayed as perfect and Greens as totally evil, which is far from the truth- just how do you imagine you or anyone will be able to claim that after Blood and Cheese happens?