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Two Weeks Until The Rise of the Dragon


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4 minutes ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

The Conquest: The Arrival of the Targaryens

Dragonstone is described as the largest of the island of Blackwater Bay. Isn't Driftmark larger than Dragonstone ?

That is correct. On all the maps I recall Dragonstone is the larger island.

4 minutes ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

The Conquest: Aegon’s Landing and Conquest

The battle in the waters off Gulltown is now known as the “Battle of the Gullet” just like in the Dance. Shouldn’t the battle be named the “Battle of Gulltown” rather than the Gullet ? Is it a mistake or does the battle between the Velaryon fleet and the Arryn + Braavosi fleets changed place all the sudden ?

Pretty sure this would be a mistake. Although I'm not sure we have a canonical name for the battle as such. I'd indeed go with 'Battle of(f) Gulltown' for the wiki.

4 minutes ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

* The second Lord Manfred Hightower died in 41 AC in Fire & Blood but in 43 AC in The Rise of the Dragon. Which date is correct ?

FaB would be always right unless we have good reason to believe the opposite.

George specifically elaborated on the Aegon-Maegor era Hightowers during his revision of TSotD, so whatever he introduced there is the final word on the matter.

4 minutes ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

The Reign of Jaehaerys I: The King’s Works

That’s a bit of a short cut here, Walton pursued Ser Raymund Mallery and his mutineers beyond the Wall and he was killed by a giant.

Yes, that should be rephrased so it isn't an actual contradiction to the facts, something along the lines of 'the exile of Maegor's former Kingsguard to the Wall had led to the death of Walton...'

4 minutes ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

This chapter mentions that both Ronnal Baratheon and Borys Baratheon came back from exile. But in the previous chapter, it is said that King Jaehaerys forgave Lord Rogar Baratheon and all his brother except for the youngest, Orryn Baratheon, who was sent in a 10-year-exile for the attempted abduction of Princess Rhaella. So, where does the mentions of exiles for Ronnal and Borys came from ? Was it a self-imposed exile because they were angry at Jaehaerys/Rogar ? I can understand the case for Borys since he became angry after he lost his status as the heir of Storm’s End when Boremund Baratheon was born and later on joined the Second Vulture King against his brother. The fact that Borys really wanted to become the Lord of Storm’s End is even more flagrant when we take into account the fact that he advised Rogar to join the Night’s Watch after the Rhaella incident which would have made him the new Lord of Storm’s End since Rogar was childless at that time. But Ronnal is never given a reason to leave the Stormlands/Westeros and then coming back on his own just to die of the Shivers.

Ronnal was neither exiled nor did he go into a voluntary exile. That's a clear mistake.

4 minutes ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

Shouldn’t the text say “Aenys I’s reign” rather than “Aegon I’s reign” here ? We only hear about the First Vulture King in the context of the beginning of Aenys I’s reign.

That's a mistake as well.

4 minutes ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

The Reign of Jaehaerys I: The Later Reign

Elysar is once called “Septon Elysar” instead of “Grand Maester Elysar”.

Mistake, too.

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2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I wish they hadn’t left out that Alysanne was the one who urged Jaehaerys to send Maegor’s kingsguard to the Wall.

I think this is the first confirmation we’ve gotten that Elissa Farman was older than Androw.

Alysanne had nothing to do with that decision if I recall. Pretty sure F & B established Androw as the youngest of the three siblings.

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5 hours ago, The Grey Wolf Strikes Back said:

Pretty sure F & B established Androw as the youngest of the three siblings.

Yep the information in Fire & Blood was enough to calculate the birth year for Elissa (29 AC) and Androw (32 AC). But @The Bard of Banefort is also correct that the words "elder sister" was not used prior to The Rise of the Dragon

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On 11/2/2022 at 12:48 AM, Lord Varys said:

On all the maps I recall Dragonstone is the larger island.

Dragonstone appears to be of a similar size (perhaps slightly bigger) than Driftmark at the original AGOT map. Francesca Baerald's map of Westeros in RotD seems to follow the same approach Then it shrunk and it became much smaller in the updated maps that appeared in ASOS and AFFC, where it is clearly smaller than Driftmark. That's also the case in the Lands of Ice and Fire, and HBO's official map.

So I'd say that the claim that Dragonstone is bigger is indeed surprising. If it isn't a error, then it would seem that George's original map had Dragonstone as the bigge island, that it was mistakenly made smaller in the ASOS map and all the following official maps maintained it.

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@The hairy bear I was surprised by Dragonstone said to be larger because I have the TLOIAF and ADWD maps in mind where clearly Driftmark is more elongated and a bit larger. Dragonstone is represented as more compact and a bit smaller.

I went back to the text and could not find any indication of size for the two islands apart from that sentence in The Rise of the Dragon. So either the new book is wrong or the official maps are wrong. @Ran do you know which is correct ?

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Looking at the line, it was certainly supposed to be "second largest", and somewhere along the way the "second" disappeared. Possibly even in the moment of writing it, fingers running ahead of thoughts. I'd have to look through the drafts to see if perhaps it was there and then changed in editing, in case the editorial team checked an older map and thought it was in fact the case that Dragonstone was still larger and made the change and we failed to catch it.... but probably not!

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I feel like the passage doesn't actually say it was Braxton's. It accurately repeats the before-the-child's-birth belief that it was Beesbury's, that Roy Connington rejected a marriage because he claimed the child was Braxton's, etc. The only issue is that, yes, we didn't actually bother to follow up with the note that the child was born with bright red hair. Part of compressing things as much as possible, but looking at the page layout we may be able to squeeze that in in a later print. Will make a note of it.

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47 minutes ago, Ran said:

I feel like the passage doesn't actually say it was Braxton's.

It says:

But it went further with these three particular men, as Ser Braxton could attest. He already had two bastards, and he had recently placed a third in Alys Turnberry’s belly.

and

The pregnant Alys Turnberry was rejected by Red Roy Connington, who did not want to raise Ser Braxton’s bastard

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18 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

It says:

But it went further with these three particular men, as Ser Braxton could attest. He already had two bastards, and he had recently placed a third in Alys Turnberry’s belly.

and

The pregnant Alys Turnberry was rejected by Red Roy Connington, who did not want to raise Ser Braxton’s bastard

Yeah, there’s nothing to indicate that it wasn’t Stinger’s kid.

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From F&B:

Quote

Alys Turnberry, who was pregnant, presented a harder case, as Red Roy Connington refused to marry her. “I will not pretend Stinger’s bastard is my son, nor make him the heir to Griffin’s Roost,” he told the king, defiant.

Like I said, the text of F&B presents Stinger as the probable father until after the birth and the red hair is mentioned, and we followed suit. As we were compressing things, we skipped that detail because we never really know what the layout will look like and how many words we can or can't fit, and in the end it's not particularly important. But maybe we can fit it in. 

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7 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

I think the difference is that in F&B it's the biased statement of an involved character, while in TROTD it's presented as an objective fact,by the narrator.

The narrator is basically just summarizing Gyldayn and his sources! The only difference is the lack of the red hair reference, really. If the child's hair color was not given, the assumption would indeed be that it was Stinger's. We'll see if we can work it in.

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Just now, Ran said:

If the child's hair color was not given, the assumption would indeed be that it was Stinger's.

I guess that's the point where we differ. When I read F&B for the first time, I immediately thought that Connington was in denial, the mention of the hair colour only confirmed that suspicion to me. Anyway, it's clear now what the text is meant to say.

TROTD says:

The Shivers eventually ran its course late in 61 AC, and the king set to the task of restoring his court, naming replacements for the many offices that had been emptied by illness and violence.

I guess this should be 60 AC.

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