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Two Weeks Until The Rise of the Dragon


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It says Jaehaerys and Alysanne attended Maegor's wedding to Tyanna alongside Alyssa. Is that new information or an error? On that note, I must confess my surprise that Maegor didn't marry his half-brother's widow, given her proven fertility and later on, the Black Brides.

Edited by The Grey Wolf Strikes Back
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14 hours ago, The Grey Wolf Strikes Back said:

It says Jaehaerys and Alysanne attended Maegor's wedding to Tyanna alongside Alyssa. Is that new information or an error?

It was already in Fire & Blood:

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King Aenys’s widow, Queen Alyssa, was present as well, with her younger sons, Viserys and Jaehaerys, and her daughter Alysanne. A visit from the Dowager Queen and Vhagar had persuaded her to leave her sanctuary on Driftmark and return to court, where Alyssa and her brothers and cousins of House Velaryon did homage to Maegor as the true king.

-Fire & Blood, The Sons of the Dragon

The sequence of event is thus:

41 AC

The Red Keep is still in construction so the royal family lives in a manse atop Visenya's Hill. Two Poor Fellows scales the walls of the manse and try to assassinate Aenys I. He is saved by one of his kingsguard, Ser Raymont Baratheon.

Aenys and his family (only Alyssa, Viserys, Jaehaerys, and Alysanne since Aegon and Rhaena are in the westerlands at that time) relocate to Dragonstone, where Visenya lives, for safety.

42 AC

Tensions grow between the Targaryens and the Faith, Visenya wants Aenys to act but instead the king becomes ill and soon dies. Visenya flies to Pentosand to bring back Maegor. Alys and Tyanna come back ith them. Maegor fights against the Warrior's Sons (trial by seven) and enters a coma. He wakes up 28 days later and burns the Sept of Remembrance and the Warrior's Sons left in the city. During Visenya and Maegor's coup, Alyssa took her children with her to Driftmark to be with her family. Visenya then flies to Driftmark to bring Alyssa and her three children back to the capital. Viserys is made Maegor's squire and hostage to assure Alyssa's good behavior. They all are present during the wedding of Maegor to his third wife, Tyanna of the Tower. After the wedding Viserys stays with Maegor at King's Landing but Alyssa, Jaehaerys and Alysanne are made Visenya's hostages on Dragonstone.

43 AC

Maegor and Visenya fight with their dragons against the Faith Militant and rebelious lords who follow Aegon the Uncrowned.

44 AC

Queen Visenya is back on Dragonstone and dies. Alyssa uses this opportunity to escape her captivity and takes Dark Sister and Jaehaerys and Alysanne with her. At the time nobody knows where she went but in hindsight we know she took refuge at Storm's End with Lord Rogar Baratheon. Viserys is tortured and killed by Maegor and Tyanna as they try to find out where Alyssa went.

 

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On that note, I must confess my surprise that Maegor didn't marry his half-brother's widow, given her proven fertility and later on, the Black Brides.

During Aenys I's reign, Maegor put the blame of not having children on his wife, Ceryse Hightower. He took Alys Harroway as a second wife to remedy this problem and got exiled for it. When he came back and took the throne three years later still no children, so he took a third wife, his paramour Tyanna of the Tower. I think Maegor thought that with now three wives he had covered all his bases and he did not need to marry his brother's widow who hated him. He as proven right somewhat as his wives did became pregant but then they died for a reason or an other.

By the time Maegor took the three Black Brides for wives in early 47 AC, his reign had already almost fallen into pieces: Visenya, Ceryse, and Alys were dead, he could not count on Vhagar anymore, more rebellions, the Faith Militant still defiant, still no news of Alyssa and her children, ...

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On 11/4/2022 at 8:13 PM, DMC said:

It'd seriously mess with my headcanon if Dragonstone was larger than Driftmark.

I take Dragonstone to be about the size of Man, Driftmark the size of Gotland.

Overall, Dragonstone and it’s dependencies is a sizeable fief, and doubtless very prosperous, given that it sits on a major trade route.

Edited by SeanF
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2 hours ago, The Grey Wolf Strikes Back said:

@Thomaerys Velaryon

Memory fail on my part. Thanks for the correction.

As for Alyssa, I meant more that she ticks all the boxes for Maegor. She's of proven fertility, a great beauty, possesses Valyrian blood, and as his half-brother's widow the closest he can get to marrying a sister.

He could have done that easily enough, and it is odd that it doesn't come up in 42 AC when Alyssa is still somewhat younger. However, back then Maegor already had a second wife in Alys and would soon make his lover Tyanna his third - one imagines he expected that his two new wives would eventually give him children. He wouldn't have needed Aenys' leavings for that.

Alyssa may have been still a good addition to his stable of wives when his reign started to fail ... but that's also the time she slipped away and taking Rhaena as his wife was a better choice, anyway.

If Alyssa had had a Targaryen mother marrying her would have been more important.

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2 hours ago, The Grey Wolf Strikes Back said:

As for Alyssa, I meant more that she ticks all the boxes for Maegor. She's of proven fertility, a great beauty, possesses Valyrian blood, and as his half-brother's widow the closest he can get to marrying a sister.

I agree with you Alyssa would have been a great match (lucky Rogar Baratheon I guess). Maegor was already pissing off the Faith and in war against them at that point so he would have not cared that marrying his brother's widow so close to Aenys's death was scandalous and a form of incest.

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52 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Alyssa was considered too old by then. Rogar never expected her to bear any more children, which was why his brother was his heir.

Another small change to ROTD: here Jace named Corlys Hand, not Rhaenyra.

That was in 49 AC. I was referring to around 42 AC, at which point Alyssa would only be 35. Also, the fact Rogar didn't expect to have any children by Alyssa makes him look even stupider. The woman was only 42. Surely women in their 40s have given birth before in Westeros. (Whether or not its safe for them to give birth is a separate matter obviously.)

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2 hours ago, The Grey Wolf Strikes Back said:

That was in 49 AC. I was referring to around 42 AC, at which point Alyssa would only be 35. Also, the fact Rogar didn't expect to have any children by Alyssa makes him look even stupider. The woman was only 42. Surely women in their 40s have given birth before in Westeros. (Whether or not its safe for them to give birth is a separate matter obviously.)

35 is still pretty old in a world where it’s not uncommon to start popping out kids at 13. Plus he may have just not liked Alyssa very much.

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34 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

35 is still pretty old in a world where it’s not uncommon to start popping out kids at 13. Plus he may have just not liked Alyssa very much.

And yet GRRM claims that isn't common in Westeros...

Also, its not like Maegor had any qualms marrying women who hated his guts given the Black Brides.

Edited by The Grey Wolf Strikes Back
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5 hours ago, The Grey Wolf Strikes Back said:

And yet GRRM claims that isn't common in Westeros...

Also, its not like Maegor had any qualms marrying women who hated his guts given the Black Brides.

Yeah, well, what GRRM says and what he writes aren’t always the same thing.

I’m saying that Maegor may not have liked Alyssa, not the other way around.

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Maegor had another wife with Alys since 39 AC, and he took another with Tyanna in 43 AC. He expected to father sons on each of them, presumably, meaning there was literally no need to even consider marrying Alyssa Velaryon.

What's odd is that he waited so long to marry Rhaena. He should have claimed her immediately after doing away with Aegon the Uncrowned to ensure she doesn't marry somebody else and gives birth to more children which might eventually challenge his claim.

Alyssa isn't worth much - she is only a couple of years younger than barren Ceryse, and her Targaryen blood is very diluted.

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1 hour ago, The Grey Wolf Strikes Back said:

According to F & B less than 50 Dragonkeepers were on duty during the Storming but according to ROTD all 77 members of the order were killed by the mob. Also, ROTD says the Gold Cloaks tried to reach the Dragonpit to protect the dragons but were repulsed by the mob. Which is it, @Ran?

FaB is always right in such a case.

Rhaenyra sent the Goldcloaks to the Dragonpit earlier, but the riots made it impossible for them to reach it.

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