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Are the Starks victims?


The Commentator
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1 hour ago, The Gizzard of Oz said:

The Starks reap what they sow.  Break your oath and somebody gets pissed enough to make you pay. Robb and Jon betrayed the people they were leading and karma bit them back.  I call that fair.  Arya is a brutal killer and if would only be fair if somebody kills her.  Calling them victims is not appropriate though.  It's more like nature balancing.  They do wrong and they are made to pay.  Cat put the lives of her father's small folk in danger just to learn who tried to kill one son.  She was selfish and forgot her duty to protect the small folk.    

Wow! A new hate alt

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5 hours ago, The Gizzard of Oz said:

The Starks reap what they sow.  Break your oath and somebody gets pissed enough to make you pay. Robb and Jon betrayed the people they were leading and karma bit them back.  I call that fair.  Arya is a brutal killer and if would only be fair if somebody kills her.  Calling them victims is not appropriate though.  It's more like nature balancing.  They do wrong and they are made to pay.  Cat put the lives of her father's small folk in danger just to learn who tried to kill one son.  She was selfish and forgot her duty to protect the small folk.  

So when's Daenerys going to pay for having the Wineseller's daughter tortured and the death of Hazzea?

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On 10/12/2022 at 6:32 PM, The Commentator said:

Edward, Catelyn, Robb, Lady, and Greywind are dead.

Lady was really a victim. She did nothing bad, bite no one. And was killed for faults not her own. The others played the game and made errors. It cost their lives and plenty of other pledged to them. It was unfair. But this world is unfair. It was done in belief of doing good. But is was plainly bad moves others would have played differently. I would call them bad players rather than victims.

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On 10/15/2022 at 10:57 AM, BalerionTheCat said:

Lady was really a victim. She did nothing bad, bite no one. And was killed for faults not her own. The others played the game and made errors. It cost their lives and plenty of other pledged to them. It was unfair. But this world is unfair. It was done in belief of doing good. But is was plainly bad moves others would have played differently. I would call them bad players rather than victims.

Lady died because Sansa lied. It was unfair to the wolf. It shows Robert didn’t have a firm grip on justice. He took the easy way instead of standing up to his wife. It’s not easy to oppose your wife but he was the king and should have.  

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2 hours ago, The Commentator said:

Lady died because Sansa lied. It was unfair to the wolf. It shows Robert didn’t have a firm grip on justice. He took the easy way instead of standing up to his wife. It’s not easy to oppose your wife but he was the king and should have.  

Robert and Ned died because of their errors and misjudgments. But I think they also died because they left Lady, the gift of the Old Gods, to be killed.

Cersei is guilty in this affair too. But as you said, it was Robert who made the call. She will also die. But she has plenty of other crimes to pay for. Her suffering, if the Valonqar prophecy is half true, will be far more horrendous.

I'm wondering if Sansa will die too Or if the loss of the wolf will be her only punishment. She was young and very naive at this time.

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On 10/12/2022 at 12:32 PM, The Commentator said:

Edward, Catelyn, Robb, Lady, and Greywind are dead. They have lost all of their possessions. The Lannister had a Writ prepared to take away all of their material goods.  The question for me is if they are victims of their enemies. How do you consider the Starks?

Most of their problems is because they can't keep their word.  They make promises that are no good.  I would have to say they brought their own ruin. 

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On 10/14/2022 at 12:00 PM, Corvo the Crow said:

Now that I think of it, she was older than Jon and Jon wasn't 16 at the time, so a minor even by Westerosi standards. Wow sexual abuse of children, great work Ygritte you pervert.

Hmm… 16 is when boys and girls reach legal majority in Westeros. 

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On 10/18/2022 at 1:28 PM, The Commentator said:

Lady died because Sansa lied. It was unfair to the wolf. It shows Robert didn’t have a firm grip on justice. He took the easy way instead of standing up to his wife. It’s not easy to oppose your wife but he was the king and should have.  

Lady died b/c Cersei is a spiteful arsehole, Ned tried too hard to cool things down, and Robert is a spineless coward. 

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The Direwolves and Rickon are real victims.  Lady and Nymeria in particular suffered because of their bond with the Starks.  Their Stark humans betrayed them.  Edd, Catelyn, and Sansa are responsible to different degrees in the family's suffering.  Arya is a horrible person but she cannot be blamed for the losses suffered by the family.  Arya lost her mind and reacting to what happened to her family.  It is not a healthy way of coping with grief.  Arya chose violence.  I do not like Arya but the losses of the Starks is not her fault.  Jon was already at the wall and not able to help or hinder the Starks.  He gets excused.  Though what he did at the wall will have bigger consequences.  I will give my opinion of Bran in its own post.

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Every Stark played their part and made their mistakes that lead to their downfall. But the ones that really messed up and the ones that could avoid all that were Ned and Cat, they were the adults, and still they acted no better than the children.

Robb messed up the war pretty badly, but even if you change all his mistakes, he would still be in a losing position by the end of A Clash of Kings.

Sansa screwed over Ned, by telling on him with Cersei. But Ned doomed himself by warning Cersei and ignoring Renly.

Arya had the chance to save her family and name Tywin, but wasted that power on a small fry.

Bran and Rickon are too young to do anything, but Bran refused to reveal himself to anyone in the north and vanished causing a massive power vacum.

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7 hours ago, Rondo said:

Nymeria

How did Arya 'betray' Nymeria? She sent her away because she didn't want her to die...

7 hours ago, Rondo said:

Arya lost her mind

This is getting silly. Arya has not lost her mind. She is not psychotic. She has not become detached from reality. She is not seeing or hearing things that aren't there.

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12 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Hmm… 16 is when boys and girls reach legal majority in Westeros. 

Mmhmm. Which was exactly the age Jon fell short of. Ygritte isn’t just guilty by our modern standards, even in Westerosi standarts the shaggy haired rapist  was shagging boys of non legal age. Perhaps it may be different for wildlings though, so I’ll give her the benefit of doubt. But coercing someone into having carnal relations with you with the threat of death isn’t something that’s bad in just modern times, it wouldn’t be looked favorably upon even in Westeros and wildling society.

 

Edited by Corvo the Crow
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