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U.S. Politics: Rs Stand Around While Ds Try to Rescue Them


Zorral

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Democrats should have done a snap impeachment on the night of 1/6. I think enough Republicans were still angry enough that it would've gone through. And the paperwork was drawn up for it too. I don't understand why Pelosi squashed the effort and I think it's one of the largest mistakes of her career. By waiting the extra days, it gave too much time for Republicans to compartmentalize and justify to themselves what happened.

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Just now, Tywin et al. said:

They could have impeached him 100 times at just the right moment and nothing would have changed. 

I mean I think a conviction would've happened that night, which of course would've changed things.

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20 minutes ago, Fez said:

Democrats should have done a snap impeachment on the night of 1/6. I think enough Republicans were still angry enough that it would've gone through. And the paperwork was drawn up for it too. I don't understand why Pelosi squashed the effort and I think it's one of the largest mistakes of her career. By waiting the extra days, it gave too much time for Republicans to compartmentalize and justify to themselves what happened.

I agree that acting before they had an opportunity to rationalize it away was the best chance to actually get it done

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I'm unconvinced by all the 'if onlys' on impeachment. If they'd done it at this time, that time, in this way, for that or this, Trump would surely be in jail now! Maybe. Maybe not. We can't know. 

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2 hours ago, Fez said:

I mean I think a conviction would've happened that night, which of course would've changed things.

Ultimately we’ll never know, but I am extremely doubtful that 17 Republicans would have voted to convict him, in part because I think they would have needed more than 17 to actually do it.

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21 hours ago, Firebrand Jace said:

How's that awareness raising going of the crimes that were committed in broad daylight, on TV, at the expressed (multiple) public (times) urging of the sitting president? Is the party that has wholly committed to his illegal activities going to be punished, you think? 

My most vivid memory from that day in these threads was the fact that I said a coup was going on and the military needed to be called in immediately. And everyone else said, nope, these are just crazies, the US hadn’t reached that point, the police can deal with it etc. etc.

Based on the concept, you know, of, if it looks like coup, if it feels like a coup, if it tastes like a coup….

No, no, we have to eat it to make sure!

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21 hours ago, Firebrand Jace said:

How's that awareness raising going of the crimes that were committed in broad daylight, on TV, at the expressed (multiple) public (times) urging of the sitting president? Is the party that has wholly committed to his illegal activities going to be punished, you think? 

Yes, they'll be punished with a majority in at least one of the two chambers of congress.

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30 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

My most vivid memory from that day in these threads was the fact that I said a coup was going on and the military needed to be called in immediately. And everyone else said, nope, these are just crazies, the US hadn’t reached that point, the police can deal with it etc. etc.

Based on the concept, you know, of, if it looks like coup, if it feels like a coup, if it tastes like a coup….

No, no, we have to eat it to make sure!

The inaction of secret service, local police, neighboring state police, and national guard was not known at the time and *should* have been the response. The military still should not have been called in -- that was the wrong instinct in the moment and still is in hindsight.

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Just now, Week said:

The inaction of secret service, local police, neighboring state police, and national guard was not known at the time and *should* have been the response. The military still should not have been called in -- that was the wrong instinct in the moment and still is in hindsight.

Not having a “National Guard” in Canada, it would be the military in the event of the failure of the police.

But that aside, after watching events unfolding for hours on tv, in hindsight calling the military in would have been the right response. When the congressional police are getting smashed, when the SS are looking after the higher ups (they sure as all hell weren’t the ones to be wading into the crowds), when the local police are doing nothing, when the National Guard is sitting on their hands, yes, the military. It was damn obvious no one else was doing anything, it was obvious to everyone watching around the world.

Your response strikes me just like those on the actual day, “this ain’t happening here”.

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7 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Your response strikes me just like those on the actual day, “this ain’t happening here”.

Ok? I don't remember the thread that day having that tenor - at all - nor was that my mindset at the time. Bringing in the military (what branch, from where, with what mission) would be absolutely exceptional to their typical mission and would have been extremely dangerous. There are a plethora of other options that could have and should have been mobilized (and better prepared).

Eta- who exactly would be calling in the military here? Congressional leaders who were stonewalled at the local, state, and national levels? The executive and CIC who were in support of the insurrection? The military taking it upon themselves?

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4 hours ago, Fez said:

I mean I think a conviction would've happened that night, which of course would've changed things.

I don't think this was possible.  It may be the case that 17 GOP Senators were inclined to convict on that night, but I don't think you'd get anywhere near that who would agree to expedite the process that quickly.  Also remember that they didn't finish certifying till 3:44 am that night.  Everybody wanted to go to bed.

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57 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

My most vivid memory from that day in these threads was the fact that I said a coup was going on and the military needed to be called in immediately. And everyone else said, nope, these are just crazies, the US hadn’t reached that point, the police can deal with it etc. etc.

There was certainly discussion on here wondering where the the hell the national guard was.  I recall remarking that apparently they'll show up when Winds of Winter is released.

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Mitch McConnell was mad as hell about the insurrection, but there's no way he was going to conduct the impeachment proceedings that night.  At best Pelosi could have gotten impeachment done then (...maybe, people were tired), but then it would have been up to McConnell.  I'm pretty doubtful it would have gotten the extra 7 senators needed to convict.

Also, DC police were absolutely involved in fighting off the insurrectionists.  Michael Fanone is a member of the Metropolitan Police (aka DC police), who came to the assistance of the Capitol Police Department when they called for aid.  The problem is that it is illegal for anyone else to come to assist the DC and Capitol Police without the OK of the executive branch.  Thus while Gov. Hogan (MD) and Gov. Northam (VA) had police and troops standing by at the DC line to send assistance, they were not legally allowed to enter DC. 

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The part where the political/legal/media masters allowed the rules to become "we have to prove he knows he's not actually entitled to whatever he wants to have whenever he wants it" is probably my favorite episode of America: or; How I Learned to Stop Trying to Care and Admire the Hutzpah 

I mean I'd commit a lot more crimes if I could throw tantrums at the judge, declare that I believe I really CAN run over sixteen "people" on my way to work without issue because I always drive through the hallways of the middle school and I have never offered any evidence that I believe otherwise.

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