[Spoilers]Rings of Power 3: Tolkien’s actual writing… who needs that?

[Raja]

I found her characterization in the first few episodes to be fairly one note, in that she was more 'I *need* to kill Sauron' as opposed to any actual interiority in the character, but the latter few episodes she grew on me, especially in the scenes DMC mentioned.

I certainly don't see her as child like etc that people do on here, neither do I care that she was 'rude' - I don't really care what she was supposed to be in the books, I just want to see good TV and as long as she stays internally consistent on the *show*, I'm good with that.

[Le Cygne]

3 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

When I first saw the leak, I thought it was too preposterous to possibly be true.  As time went on, it became more clear that despite how totally stupid the idea was, they were doing it.  They basically destroyed Sauron, Galadriel and most of the eleves because they wanted Twitter to get hooked on 'who is Sauron'.  Sad.  

And it's like they wanted them to ship Galadriel and Sauron, too. That's very big on twitter. Good job, show.

It seemed like a lot of characters dropped in from other movies and shows.

Elves were Vulcans dropping in from Star Trek. I kept wanting Sidney Poitier to show up like in To Sir With Love to teach Galadriel some manners. And Sauron is from some teen vampire show.

[Cas Stark]

21 minutes ago, DMC said:

Anyway, I wasn't a fan of Galadriel's characterization either, but I didn't find her particularly rude or a jerk or brat or whatever.  She was maybe disrespectful when she first showed up at Numenor, but that's all I really recall from the first five episode.  In the last three episodes, which I watched on Saturday and remember better, we have her:  comforting and bonding with Isildur; comforting, giving advice, and encouraging Theo; showing respect to Miriel and forming a bond and a pact with her; reconciling with Elrond and asking him to trust her; and saving Halbrand's life then growing suspicious of him.  Her neglecting to tell Elrond and Celebrimbor about Sauron is still interminably stupid, but I really don't see brattiness.

And frankly, it pales in comparison to my disappointment in Gil-Galad's characterization, who just comes off as a dick in the handful of scenes he's in.

I didn't get that from the films.  Well, he thought men were weak, yes, but that wasn't his reasoning for why he didn't want Arwen to marry Aragorn.  Granted, his insane demand that Aragorn can only marry his daughter if he unites the two kingdoms, one defunct, isn't there.  But he didn't want Arwen to marry him for pretty similar reasons - he didn't want her to suffer and he loves her.  Specifically I recall the one scene where he asks her "don't I have your love too?"

All the elves are poorly done in the show.  I know this forum really likes Elrond [I don't], but Gil Galad is somewhat of a loser and Celebrimbor is also a dumb loser. 

[DMC]

4 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

All the elves are poorly done in the show.

I don't deny that, just saying I didn't see any brattiness in Galadriel, at least over the last three episodes, at all.  She's a pretty likeable character and lead in my book, even though, yes, she's not really Galadriel.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Something I said before the final episode that I think is doubly true now is that there is something nihilistic about this story. We already know how the story ends, so we know that Sauron will never find redemption. Despite him doing nothing malicious all season, we’re supposed to believe that he’s incapable of goodness because Sauron is pure evil (some people will try to argue with me on that, but if you look at interviews, the people involved on this show clearly believe he’s pure evil). So we’re now supposed to look back on all the things we liked about Halbrand and say “nope, that’s irrelevant.”

But the most nihilistic part might be Galadriel’s reaction to the reveal. Sauron reminds her that she said he could be redeemed, but she shuts him down and says that’s impossible. And we the audience know, based on the original story and Galadriel’s role as the protagonist, that she’s supposed to be right. What a horribly depressing message: it doesn’t matter how repentant you are, or how many good deeds you do, or how close your bond with someone is, there is no path to redemption, so don’t even bother trying. It’s like Calvinism on steroids. (Perhaps that how Milton was able to write Paradise Lost. . .)

[The Bard of Banefort]

11 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

And it's like they wanted them to ship Galadriel and Sauron, too. That's very big on twitter. Good job, show.

It seemed like a lot of characters dropped in from other movies and shows.

Elves were Vulcans dropping in from Star Trek. I kept wanting Sidney Poitier to show up like in To Sir With Love to teach Galadriel some manners. And Sauron is from some teen vampire show.

From a fandom perspective, Hot Sauron/Saurondriel was the smartest thing ROP ever did. It struggled to find a foothold among extremely online viewers, but now it has a firm grip on the shipping community. The problem is that we know how this story ends, which ultimately renders it all irrelevant.

[Cas Stark]

1 minute ago, DMC said:

I don't deny that, just saying I didn't see any brattiness in Galadriel, at least over the last three episodes, at all.  She's a pretty likeable character and lead in my book, even though, yes, she's not really Galadriel.

Mileage varies I guess, I found her extremely grating and she can never recover from not disclosing that, hey, ya'll Sauron is alive, he was that swashbuckling smith bro whose life I saved and then he asked me to be his queen and I said no and then he left...maybe these rings are a bad idea, cause Dark Lord and all. 

I actually found many of the show characters unlikeable.  Theo, bleh.  Ilsidur, another brat. The daughter, whatever her name is, bleh.  The UBER IRISH Harfoots, cloying.  The Numenorian queen grew on me, so its too bad she'll be sidelined now as a blind victim going forward.  

[Le Cygne]

1 minute ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Something I said before the final episode that I think is doubly true now is that there is something nihilistic about this story. We already know how the story ends, so we know that Sauron will never find redemption. Despite him doing nothing malicious all season, we’re supposed to believe that he’s incapable of goodness because Sauron is pure evil (some people will try to argue with me on that, but if you look at interviews, the people involved on this show clearly believe he’s pure evil). So we’re now supposed to look back on all the things we liked about Halbrand and say “nope, that’s irrelevant.”

But the most nihilistic part might be Galadriel’s reaction to the reveal. Sauron reminds her that she said he could be redeemed, but she shuts him down and says that’s impossible. And we the audience know, based on the original story and Galadriel’s role as the protagonist, that she’s supposed to be right. What a horribly depressing message: it doesn’t matter how repentant you are, or how many good deeds you do, or how close your bond with someone is, there is no path to redemption, so don’t even bother trying. It’s like Calvinism on steroids. (Perhaps that how Milton was able to write Paradise Lost. . .)

Yep, they had them all, "Be my prom queen!" (yes, baiting the shippers for clips to use on social media), and then she's like, "I'd never go to the dance with YOU!" and then making nasty faces at each other.

I guess she was just slumming with this guy from the wrong side of the tracks, but when it came down to it, he wasn't good enough for her, and never would be. Nothing he could do to win her over. Poor guy.

[Le Cygne]

4 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

From a fandom perspective, Hot Sauron/Saurondriel was the smartest thing ROP ever did. It struggled to find a foothold among extremely online viewers, but now it has a firm grip on the shipping community. The problem is that we know how this story ends, which ultimately renders it all irrelevant.

They could have done Hot Celeborn and Galadriel. A steamy romance as a vehicle to get the audience to know and like them.

I suppose eventually they will go there, at long last, but then there will be shipping wars! They'll have to get Hot Sauron a girlfriend.

[Raja]

13 minutes ago, DMC said:

I don't deny that, just saying I didn't see any brattiness in Galadriel, at least over the last three episodes, at all.

Agreed. In a lot of her scenes in the last few episodes, there's plenty of wisdom with the supposed arrogance.

[Cas Stark]

9 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

From a fandom perspective, Hot Sauron/Saurondriel was the smartest thing ROP ever did. It struggled to find a foothold among extremely online viewers, but now it has a firm grip on the shipping community. The problem is that we know how this story ends, which ultimately renders it all irrelevant.

Yeah I guess.  But it guts the whole story.  It turns out that it is Galadriel's actions that will cause everything, all the death and destruction, going forward for centuries, because she rejects Sauron's plea for redemption and then doesn't mention any of this before the rings are forged.  It's also true that the mystery box who is Sauron was successful.  All of which is a sad commentary on what passes for quality these days.

[Jace, Extat]

2 hours ago, DMC said:

Didn't Carlin die about a decade-and-a-half ago?

Carlin never died. He simply became his comedy.

[Corvinus85]

3 hours ago, Firebrand Jace said:

"Don't use these kinda words in these kinda ways, especially on these special days. Find a way to say your say any way but the way we say you can't say what it is you'd like to say, ok? And hey, no argues! Argues are bad, and make people feel worse. Worse than worse, they do the worst on those who want to be the worst! Argues gives verbal cover to BAD BADS who want to take all the nice words that make happies and replace them with bad words that make SADDIES. Don't be a Baddie, don't make SADDIES. Be Best and only connect characters that initiate feelings of euphoria and passivity, and especially most especially, don't rock the boat."

Where have I seen such juvenile thought controlling techniques...? Damn, this is so hard! I'll get back to this line of thought when I return from evening Mass.

Don't churches have wards and such that keep you out? 

[Jace, Extat]

19 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Don't churches have wards and such that keep you out? 

 

The shadow draws long

The hour of uncomings

Nearly at hand now

 

(haiku) 

[Farerb]

4 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

From a fandom perspective, Hot Sauron/Saurondriel was the smartest thing ROP ever did. It struggled to find a foothold among extremely online viewers, but now it has a firm grip on the shipping community. The problem is that we know how this story ends, which ultimately renders it all irrelevant.

It's not really something original they came up with, they copied it from Twilight/ The sequel trilogy / Shadow and Bone or whatever. They probably had an algorithm that told them to pair the good girl protagonist with the bad boy or something because a lot of people like these sort of things.

[Raja]

Whilst I've never shipped that couple, I think it was probably the right choice to have possibly the two main characters at least interact, so I was totally fine with the halbrand/ galadriel dynamic. 

I'd read the book if I wanted everything to be how it is in that

[IFR]

45 minutes ago, Farerb said:

They probably had an algorithm that told them to pair the good girl protagonist with the bad boy or something because a lot of people like these sort of things.

I think "storytelling by algorithm" is a good description of RoP and many shows lately by Amazon, Netflix and Disney.

It's very reminiscent of this scene from Barry.

 

[mormont]

6 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

They could have done Hot Celeborn and Galadriel. A steamy romance as a vehicle to get the audience to know and like them.

A lot of writers don't really know how to write a steamy romance featuring two characters who're already married when the story begins. Sad, but true.

[Le Cygne]

7 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

Yeah I guess.  But it guts the whole story.  It turns out that it is Galadriel's actions that will cause everything, all the death and destruction, going forward for centuries, because she rejects Sauron's plea for redemption and then doesn't mention any of this before the rings are forged.  It's also true that the mystery box who is Sauron was successful.  All of which is a sad commentary on what passes for quality these days.

Yep. If they wanted to appeal to shippers, the real story was a nice opportunity. The movies played up the Arwen and Aragorn romance nicely, and they loved it.

The show even hinted at it, when Galadriel mentioned Celeborn. They could have had flashbacks or included it in the scenes from the past in the beginning.

[Farerb]

They also could have done romance with Elrond and Celebrían.