[Spoilers]Rings of Power 3: Tolkien’s actual writing… who needs that?

[john]

11 hours ago, Raja said:

Y'all talking like some real old as fuck people in here

Oh listen to Dougie Howser over here! (yes, that’s the kind of references I’m working with)

[Le Cygne]

On 10/21/2022 at 9:43 AM, The Bard of Banefort said:

Well, HOTD hasn’t really connected with younger viewers either. What shows do younger viewers watch anyway?

I’m in my 20s, but I watched ROP on my laptop, so I suppose my view wouldn’t count towards the final viewing numbers.

It’s ironic though, because all the marketing around inclusivity and YouTubers and the actors talking about their activism was clearly aimed at appealing to younger viewers. They would have been better off courting boomers. 

The lack of merchandise is undoubtedly also playing a role. How is it that Amazon of all places still doesn’t have any merch?

There's also Stranger Things, and there are a bunch of romances/ships in that one. Offhand, there's: 11/Mike, Steve/Nancy/Jonathan, Joyce/Hopper, Max/Lucas, Dustin/Suzy... and some more teased, like Robin/band girl.

Yeah, sometimes you want to watch in other places, too. Also some old movies/shows are still only in SD or only archived in odd places. Laptop can be fun, and like you say, you can jump around easily. (Ultimate is TV, though.)

Also, interesting question about merch, some Tolkien alternatives here. I have a feeling the illustrated LOTR with Tolkien pics will end up on its way to me soon. https://www.gamesradar.com/rings-of-power-merchandise/

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 hour ago, Le Cygne said:

There's also Stranger Things, and there are a bunch of romances/ships in that one. Offhand, there's: 11/Mike, Steve/Nancy/Jonathan, Joyce/Hopper, Max/Lucas, Dustin/Suzy... and some more teased, like Robin/band girl.

Yeah, sometimes you want to watch in other places, too. Also some old movies/shows are still only in SD or only archived in odd places. Laptop can be fun, and like you say, you can jump around easily. (Ultimate is TV, though.)

Also, interesting question about merch, some Tolkien alternatives here. I have a feeling the illustrated LOTR with Tolkien pics will end up on its way to me soon. https://www.gamesradar.com/rings-of-power-merchandise/

Yeah, there are also more niche shows that teens seem to like, like Bridgerton, Sex Education, and Riverdale. I found a really interesting survey that showed a huge drop in TV viewing among Gen Z compared to previous generations. It’s the most popular form of entertainment among all generations except for Gen Z, where it’s only the fifth most popular.

https://variety.com/2021/digital/news/gen-z-survey-deloitte-tv-movies-ranking-1234954207/

But yeah, shipping definitely helps a show’s popularity. And fangirls usually do consume all the related material. A lot of the DaemonxRhaenyra shippers are now reading or have already read Fire & Blood, for example.

[Le Cygne]

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Yeah, there are also more niche shows that teens seem to like, like Bridgerton, Sex Education, and Riverdale. I found a really interesting survey that showed a huge drop in TV viewing among Gen Z compared to previous generations. It’s the most popular form of entertainment among all generations except for Gen Z, where it’s only the fifth most popular.

https://variety.com/2021/digital/news/gen-z-survey-deloitte-tv-movies-ranking-1234954207/

But yeah, shipping definitely helps a show’s popularity. And fangirls usually do consume all the related material. A lot of the DaemonxRhaenyra shippers are now reading or have already read Fire & Blood, for example.

The other four options in that survey are pretty close in percentage (TV, music, social media, internet). I think for teens, it all blends together, they talk about shows and ships and music on social media.

Here's another take on that survey, it seems they do a lot of streaming vs. traditional live TV, so it depends on how you look at it, and it also supports that it's all linked together for them (multitasking):

The survey found, on average, that Americans watch 38 hours per week of video content, of which 39% is streamed and 61% is on live TV. For younger audiences, streaming is bulk of their video diet: Gen Zers watch 22 hours of streaming video weekly vs. 16 hours of TV, and Millennials watch 19 hours of streaming video vs. 15 hours of live TV.

For example, 70% of Gen Z households had a streaming subscription, closely followed by millennials at 68% and Gen X at 64%. About 70% of Gen Z and millennials stream movies compared with 60% of Gen X viewers on a weekly basis. Some 96% “MilleXZials” multitask while watching TV.

https://variety.com/2018/tv/news/deloitte-streaming-survey-consumers-2-billion-monthly-svod-services-1202730159/

[The Bard of Banefort]

7 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

The other four options in that survey are pretty close in percentage (TV, music, social media, internet). I think for teens, it all blends together, they talk about shows and ships and music on social media.

Here's another take on that survey, it seems they do a lot of streaming vs. traditional live TV, so it depends on how you look at it, and it also supports that it's all linked together for them (multitasking):

The survey found, on average, that Americans watch 38 hours per week of video content, of which 39% is streamed and 61% is on live TV. For younger audiences, streaming is bulk of their video diet: Gen Zers watch 22 hours of streaming video weekly vs. 16 hours of TV, and Millennials watch 19 hours of streaming video vs. 15 hours of live TV.

For example, 70% of Gen Z households had a streaming subscription, closely followed by millennials at 68% and Gen X at 64%. About 70% of Gen Z and millennials stream movies compared with 60% of Gen X viewers on a weekly basis. Some 96% “MilleXZials” multitask while watching TV.

https://variety.com/2018/tv/news/deloitte-streaming-survey-consumers-2-billion-monthly-svod-services-1202730159/

Thanks for the article. (Although it was published several years before the other one).

 

Based on my own observations of people online, there are a few aspects of the show that seem to be popular. Elrond and Durin is often cited by people who didn’t like the show as the only part they did like. The dwarves in general are well-liked. The Harfoots were a huge draw in the beginning (again, us plebs love us some hobbits) but their plot line seemed to lose steam as the story went on. I think that if they reduced the Harfoots to Nori and Poppy just goofing off, it would be well-received. 90% of Twitter and Reddit posts are about Sauron, with some speculation over Meteor Man as well.*

By contrast, I’ve seen little interest in the Southlanders and Numenorians. Galadriel is a very polarizing figure, with most of the discourse I’ve seen leaning towards the negative. 

I generally liked the acting on this show, but I think some characters, like Miriel and Isildur, were miscast. I like what they were doing with the characters—Isildur as a punk-ass kid who we’ll see grow into a king, Miriel as an anxious but dutiful leader terrified of failure—but I think they would have both been better received if the actors were more charismatic. Then you have someone like Arondir, who I thought gave a good performance, but wasn’t given much of anything to work with. The show kind of forgot about him (lol) after EP6.

*Pour one out for the actor. Since the Stranger technically isn’t confirmed as Gandalf yet, he has to spend the next 2-3 years dodging all the questions about him being Gandalf in interviews. I can see that getting old very fast.

[DMC]

30 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

The other four options in that survey are pretty close in percentage (TV, music, social media, internet). I think for teens, it all blends together, they talk about shows and ships and music on social media.

Video games, it should be noted, were the top pick among Gen Zers at 26%.  I'm frankly surprised it was only at 16% for millennials.  I'm not a gamer myself, but it's occupies most of my (older) brother's time, and he just turned 40.  I'm also surprised "listening to music" was as high as it was.  Does anybody just listen to music anymore?  I actually did quite a bit when I was a kid, but now I'm almost always doing something else, even if it's just smoking a cigarette.

[The Bard of Banefort]

2 minutes ago, DMC said:

Video games, it should be noted, were the top pick among Gen Zers at 26%.  I'm frankly surprised it was only at 16% for millennials.  I'm not a gamer myself, but it's occupies most of my (older) brother's time, and he just turned 40.  I'm also surprised "listening to music" was as high as it was.  Does anybody just listen to music anymore?  I actually did quite a bit when I was a kid, but now I'm almost always doing something else, even if it's just smoking a cigarette.

You listen to music while you do your homework.

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

You listen to music while you do your homework.

Exactly.  Which isn't really an "entertainment activity."

[Le Cygne]

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Based on my own observations of people online, there are a few aspects of the show that seem to be popular. Elrond and Durin is often cited by people who didn’t like the show as the only part they did like. The dwarves in general are well-liked. The Harfoots were a huge draw in the beginning (again, us plebs love us some hobbits) but their plot line seemed to lose steam as the story went on. I think that if they reduced the Harfoots to Nori and Poppy just goofing off, it would be well-received. 90% of Twitter and Reddit posts are about Sauron, with some speculation over Meteor Man as well.*

By contrast, I’ve seen little interest in the Southlanders and Numenorians. Galadriel is a very polarizing figure, with most of the discourse I’ve seen leaning towards the negative. 

I generally liked the acting on this show, but I think some characters, like Miriel and Isildur, were miscast. I like what they were doing with the characters—Isildur as a punk-ass kid who we’ll see grow into a king, Miriel as an anxious but dutiful leader terrified of failure—but I think they would have both been better received if the actors were more charismatic. Then you have someone like Arondir, who I thought gave a good performance, but wasn’t given much of anything to work with. The show kind of forgot about him (lol) after EP6.

*Pour one out for the actor. Since the Stranger technically isn’t confirmed as Gandalf yet, he has to spend the next 2-3 years dodging all the questions about him being Gandalf in interviews. I can see that getting old very fast.

Agree. Lots of people wished Adar was Sauron, and Halbrand was Halbrand. And Galadriel was different than the way she was written. Lots of I wish this instead of that comments.

I like the idea of Nori and Poppy just goofing off! And the Stranger had to to create a character while mostly silent for most of the show. They tried to rise above the material.

Basically a better story would have helped.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

  Does anybody just listen to music anymore? 

Yes. I'm 29 and I do that a decent amount, especially early mornings/ late nights. It's mostly on the vinyl when it's just music.

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Raja said:

especially early mornings/ late nights

Ah, yes, I do sometimes still just listen to music late at night when I'm wasted.

[Argonath Diver]

I exceedingly rarely simply listen to music with my eyes closed or in the dark, though I'd guess I have my Spotify going three or four hours a day on average around the house, being outdoors, or commuting. I don't think I would consider myself as Listening To Music 20+ hours a week, especially if you factor in my full time job in the restaurant world as another 40+. But I surely consider music as important leisure activity. 

If I'm only paying 30% attention to the music, I guess I Listen To Music maybe seven hours a week.

[Jaenara Belarys]

7 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

A lot of the DaemonxRhaenyra shippers are now reading or have already read Fire & Blood, for example.

Speaking as someone who has AO3 open quite a bit, I can say that there's been a massive jump in DOTD era fics. It used to be a relatively small amount, but HOTD has obviously opened up another realm. 

They've had.....interesting concepts. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

14 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Speaking as someone who has AO3 open quite a bit, I can say that there's been a massive jump in DOTD era fics. It used to be a relatively small amount, but HOTD has obviously opened up another realm. 

They've had.....interesting concepts. 

It’s easy to make fun of fangirls, but they usually do eat up all the source material they can find (which they then use to make graphics and write metas on tumblr lol). As a huge fan of the books, I appreciate that.

[Jaenara Belarys]

4 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

It’s easy to make fun of fangirls, but they usually do eat up all the source material they can find (which they then use to make graphics and write metas on tumblr lol). As a huge fan of the books, I appreciate that.

I'm not protesting, I like the Daemrya fics. 

What's not to love about the uncle seducing his underage niece in Flea Bottom?

[DMC]

54 minutes ago, Argonath Diver said:

If I'm only paying 30% attention to the music, I guess I Listen To Music maybe seven hours a week.

Yeah, I think this is quite common.  The point is the survey item was asking what your favorite entertainment activity is.  When I think most people - of any age - usually aren't listening to music as their primary "entertainment activity."  Indeed, they may be listening to music while doing at least a couple other of the mentioned entertainment activities - e.g. browsing the internet or social media.

[VigoTheCarpathian]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

Yeah, I think this is quite common.  The point is the survey item was asking what your favorite entertainment activity is.  When I think most people - of any age - usually aren't listening to music as their primary "entertainment activity."  Indeed, they may be listening to music while doing at least a couple other of the mentioned entertainment activities - e.g. browsing the internet or social media.

Also - drive time, and working out.  It’s the only entertainment that slots in well for me to do anything productive while working.  Even podcasts require too much attention to focus on something slightly complicated.

[Veltigar]

I haven't really weighed in on this show's end yet, due to the fact that basically everything has already been said about it. The enormous amount of both fan and critical backlash it has been getting however does make me rather curious. What is Amazon thinking at the moment? Will there be changes to their approach as a result to all this ranting about the show? 

Do w have any rumors or more credible sources about this?

[DMC]

2 hours ago, Veltigar said:

The enormous amount of both fan and critical backlash it has been getting however does make me rather curious. What is Amazon thinking at the moment? Will there be changes to their approach as a result to all this ranting about the show? 

More projecting.  There is no "critical backlash."  On Rotten Tomatoes it has an 85% rating overall.  Every episode except episode 5 (which prompted me to stop watching for three weeks) has at least an 85% rating - topping out with the finale at 90%.  On Metacritic, the score is considerably lower - a 71.  But compare this to other geekdom shows and it's perfectly fine.  Andor has a 74, HotD has a 69, and She-Hulk has a 67.

As for "fan backlash," the ratings remain solid.  In the most recent week reported by Nielsen (September 19-25), HotD did overtake ROP in streaming minutes - good for them!  But still, ROP ticked back up to 997 million minutes from the slight dip the previous week at 988 million minutes. 

The only "backlash" being seen is rather obvious review bombing and a marked lack of "online buzz."  I think this article makes a great analogy in that Amazon is the CBS of streaming and generally "dad" viewing.  It fits with the empirics that tell us 71% of its audience is over 35.  Anyway, the only way this show is receiving an "enormous amount of fan backlash" is if you're Very Online.

Look, I thought the show was middling at best myself.  I much prefer HotD and once I get to watch Andor I'm sure I'll much prefer that too.  But all measurements indicate the show is a success.  Perhaps a muted one - it's certainly not a home run - but it's at least a base hit and probably a double unless you really care about generating online buzz.  Again, I'd encourage people to get out of their own bubble (or the bubble of this thread) when considering the reception to this show.

[Veltigar]

10 minutes ago, DMC said:

More projecting.  There is no "critical backlash."  

It is not for me to disagree with the great useful source that is RT, but every critic or outlet I tend to follow has published intensely negative reviews of the entire season. Some of them did change tack however (the initial The Guardian reviewer was in hindsight hilariously over-the-top positive about the first few episodes, but the guy doing the retrospective absolutely slagged the season), so not sure how that impacts the RT scores.

The best and most positive reactions I see from the people in my immediate surroundings is that it's not too bad if you do something like fold your laundry while watching. That's admittedly a small sample size, but compare these reactions against the budget and the reception that something like The Boys is getting and I would assume that some people might be worried.