[Spoilers]Rings of Power 3: Tolkien’s actual writing… who needs that?

[SpaceChampion]

Brandon Sanderson points out the flaws of ROP.

[Derfel Cadarn]

1 hour ago, SpaceChampion said:

Brandon Sanderson points out the flaws of ROP.

Maybe RoP can point put the flaws in Brandon Sanderson’s works?

[baxus]

9 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Maybe RoP can point put the flaws in Brandon Sanderson’s works?

I'm not sure RoP could point out the flaws in my high school essays.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

On 11/24/2022 at 4:33 PM, SpaceChampion said:

Brandon Sanderson points out the flaws of ROP.

What is Sanderson doing through the entire discussion?

[JGP]

I refuse to watch it. 

Can anyone alt-text it. 

[Zorral]

49 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

What is Sanderson doing through the entire discussion?

Autographing, obvs.  How better to show one's superiority to the matter being discussed?

Yikes.  How much more condescending, patronizing, and I can do it better than you though I've never done it at all.

[Corvinus85]

5 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

What is Sanderson doing through the entire discussion?

 

4 hours ago, Zorral said:

Autographing, obvs.  How better to show one's superiority to the matter being discussed?

I've watched a previous episode of their podcast last year when they talked about The Wheel of Time TV show and Sanderson's involvement with it. He was autographing cover pages then, too. I thought it was weird/possibly insulting considering his friend is also an author who certainly didn't have a stack of papers to sign.

[Ran]

Sanderson schedules his time to the second, near as I can tell, so it genuinely seems like the personal podcasting time makes sense to him only if he can get other work done as well, like signing thousands of title pages. 

I don’t think it’s showing off or being condescending, it’s literally that he basically signs thousands of these signature pages each month. There’s a 36+ episode play list of the “Live Signature Signing” that are anywhere from 1.5 to nearly 4 hours long, where he signs pages while fans ask questions or he chats with members of his team.

 

[Werthead]

I like Sanderson and some of his critiques do have validity. However,, I do wonder how he'd cope with another bestselling author or a hugely successful TV writer criticising his work the way he sometimes does to other people, though. I remember him throwing mild shade at Steven Erikson, which was extremely ill-advised for someone whose writing skills are not remotely on a technical par with Erikson's (not that Erikson is flawless, very far from it, but he's a stronger writer than Sanderson on most levels).

It's a difficult thing for professional writers because when they criticise other writing, they are opening themselves up to the same criticism, whilst complete non-writers have more freedom to do that. I note that GRRM has seriously dialled back his commentary on other writers over the last decade or so (other than where he says he really likes them).

[SeanF]

18 minutes ago, Werthead said:

I like Sanderson and some of his critiques do have validity. However,, I do wonder how he'd cope with another bestselling author or a hugely successful TV writer criticising his work the way he sometimes does to other people, though. I remember him throwing mild shade at Steven Erikson, which was extremely ill-advised for someone whose writing skills are not remotely on a technical par with Erikson's (not that Erikson is flawless, very far from it, but he's a stronger writer than Sanderson on most levels).

It's a difficult thing for professional writers because when they criticise other writing, they are opening themselves up to the same criticism, whilst complete non-writers have more freedom to do that. I note that GRRM has seriously dialled back his commentary on other writers over the last decade or so (other than where he says he really likes them).

Making adverse comments about other writers (unless they’ve made themselves deeply unpopular) is best avoided.

[DaveSumm]

I’ve just started Mistborn, and I do enjoy it but it’s very frustrating. The books have so much going for them, the plot is good, pacing is good, characters are interesting (in theory), they have arcs, setting is interesting and unique, good twists. I just wish all these ideas had landed in the lap of someone who could write. It’s so weird to see a book score so highly in so many ways but for it to fall down on writing. It’s astonishing that anyone can have the gall to bring him up when complaining about GRRM taking ages to write a book, just read literally any paragraph by both authors and tell me which one you think took longer to write.

I think TV shows are fair game for anyone to criticise, but yea, other fantasy writers does lead you quite swiftly to a ‘glass houses’ situation.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

My comment about Sanderson, as ever, is that quantity will never equal quality.  50 little debbie oatmeal cream pies are not the equivalent of one well made Créme Brûlee.

[Heartofice]

Well this is great, I have been trying to listen to Way of Kings now after seeing it on so many ‘best fantasy’ lists, but have been questioning whether I just need to try harder to like it, especially given the nature and length of it. Doesn’t sound like opinion of Sanderson is that high.. so maybe I’ll stop.

Agree with his point on the Harfoots though, even if he was signing death warrants while speaking 

[IFR]

5 hours ago, Werthead said:

which was extremely ill-advised for someone whose writing skills are not remotely on a technical par with Erikson's (not that Erikson is flawless, very far from it, but he's a stronger writer than Sanderson on most levels).

This is a striking statement to me. I like Sanderson as a person, but I'm not into his writing. Aside from Wheel of Time, I've tried the first Mistborn book and Way of the Kings. My problem I think is his characters have the personality of a wet rag. It's just not there. And he mostly writes trope-ish fantasy, and so the ideas aren't interesting enough to compensate for the underwhelming characters. His ability to develop a world and magic system is pretty impressive though. His prose was unremarkable, but then I don't really care about prose unless it is truly outstanding.

However. I tried reading Erikson's Garden of the Moon and Deadhouse Gates and really disliked them both. Erikson also gives all of his characters the personality of a wet rag. His world building came off as an over-the-top anime Dungeons and Dragons. And while I wouldn't call the narrative trope-laden, what it did differently came off as obnoxious to me. I only read as far as I did because there was so much opacity to the events that took place and I wanted to understand what was going on. And also the end of Deadhouse Gates was admittedly fun; I wanted everyone to die, and it was all hilariously dramatic at the end.

So I can't see a large difference in writing ability between the two authors. What am I missing here? I know it's completely subjective, but I would like to know how someone who likes Erikson's writings views things.

[DaveSumm]

1 hour ago, IFR said:This is a

I too think Malazan is terrible, but I’ve given up trying to figure out what everyone sees in it. Seems to be quite a marmite thing for fantasy readers.

[Zorral]

Unreadable.

[Corvinus85]

2 hours ago, IFR said:

This is a striking statement to me. I like Sanderson as a person, but I'm not into his writing. Aside from Wheel of Time, I've tried the first Mistborn book and Way of the Kings. My problem I think is his characters have the personality of a wet rag. It's just not there. And he mostly writes trope-ish fantasy, and so the ideas aren't interesting enough to compensate for the underwhelming characters. His ability to develop a world and magic system is pretty impressive though. His prose was unremarkable, but then I don't really care about prose unless it is truly outstanding.

However. I tried reading Erikson's Garden of the Moon and Deadhouse Gates and really disliked them both. Erikson also gives all of his characters the personality of a wet rag. His world building came off as an over-the-top anime Dungeons and Dragons. And while I wouldn't call the narrative trope-laden, what it did differently came off as obnoxious to me. I only read as far as I did because there was so much opacity to the events that took place and I wanted to understand what was going on. And also the end of Deadhouse Gates was admittedly fun; I wanted everyone to die, and it was all hilariously dramatic at the end.

So I can't see a large difference in writing ability between the two authors. What am I missing here? I know it's completely subjective, but I would like to know how someone who likes Erikson's writings views things.

 

1 hour ago, DaveSumm said:

I too think Malazan is terrible, but I’ve given up trying to figure out what everyone sees in it. Seems to be quite a marmite thing for fantasy readers.

Read the first 3 Malazan books and I'm in general agreement. But Erikson's prose is better. And Erikson created more interesting secondary characters, while pretty much all of Sanderson's characters are one note with a few having a very forced second note, like he sometimes remembers he needs to create 3D characters and just hammers in another aspect for a character. And there is Sanderson's largely juvenile dialogue...

[DaveSumm]

I think Sanderson at least aims to have  interesting characters, on paper. If a better writer took the same concept and just got inside their heads a little more, it could be great. I got halfway through Deadhouse Gates and just had no lasting impression of a single character I’d encountered.

Oh look, someone just created a Sanderson thread. Probably better discussed there.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

20 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

I think Sanderson at least aims to have  interesting characters, on paper. If a better writer took the same concept and just got inside their heads a little more, it could be great. I got halfway through Deadhouse Gates and just had no lasting impression of a single character I’d encountered.

Oh look, someone just created a Sanderson thread. Probably better discussed there.

There is a Sanderon thread in the Literature subforum… I’m just not interested in it.  

[Corvinus85]

Lol, they've recast Adar. Joseph Mawle is out, replaced with Sam Hazeldine. Out of all the actors to change...

Anyway, here's the rest of casting news. https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/lord-of-the-rings-the-rings-of-power-season-2-cast-amazon-1235446800/