[Spoilers]Rings of Power 3: Tolkien’s actual writing… who needs that?

[Corvinus85]

According to these people, this is a snub. 

Quote

The Golden Globes may have immediately jumped onboard Peter Jackson’s movies — giving “The Fellowship of the Ring” four nominations, including Best Picture (Drama) — but voters are holding off on Prime Video’s lavish adaptation. Despite a heavy PR push from Amazon and critics giving the sleight edge to “TRoP” over “House of the Dragon,” the HFPA preferred HBO’s blockbuster prequel

Quote

“The Rings of Power” wasn’t made to win awards

heh

[Farerb]

Did critics really give an "edge" to The Rings of Power? It's not even nominated in the Critics' Choice Awards. House of the Dragon is.

[HexMachina]

Yeah what critics were giving it the edge?

[Corvinus85]

1 hour ago, Farerb said:

Did critics really give an "edge" to The Rings of Power? It's not even nominated in the Critics' Choice Awards. House of the Dragon is.

 

25 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Yeah what critics were giving it the edge?

Early on its critic score percentage on Rotten Tomatoes was slightly higher than HotD's. It doesn't even have that edge anymore.

[Ran]

16 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

 

Early on its critic score percentage on Rotten Tomatoes was slightly higher than HotD's. It doesn't even have that edge anymore.

It was super-slight, like a percentage point or two, so could just have been seen as variance and they were essentially seen as equal. No longer, though, with an 85% vs. a 93%.

[Ser Drewy]

A long and interesting critique about world-building and such in ROP from Acoup: https://acoup.blog/2022/12/16/collections-why-rings-of-powers-middle-earth-feels-flat/ A

[Darryk]

On 12/13/2022 at 8:04 AM, Corvinus85 said:

 

Early on its critic score percentage on Rotten Tomatoes was slightly higher than HotD's. It doesn't even have that edge anymore.

 

Lately it seems the audience score on Rotten Tomatoes has been a much better indicator. Critics are mostly in Disney and Amazon's pockets.

[Darryk]

On 12/9/2022 at 4:28 PM, LynnS said:

His character was certainly a fan favourite even though the Adar plot is way outside the box.  But it was interesting.  Not nearly as ridiculous for Mawle as Coldhands in GoT.   Durin and Elrond are all around fan favourites as well.   Durin especially is quite a hoot.  I'll also put in a good word for Nori, Poppy and the Stranger as well.

There is some speculation that the character of Adar would be killed off in Season 2.  So perhaps sticking around wasn't that appealing.

Possibly the two most annoying characters I've ever encountered in Television.

[LynnS]

17 hours ago, Darryk said:

Possibly the two most annoying characters I've ever encountered in Television.

Couldn't you have just stuck a fork in your eye?  I'm sorry you had to go through that.

[Corvinus85]

Now it makes sense why Galadriel jumped ship.

 

[Myrddin]

"Peace at last!" - Galadriel, probably

[Rippounet]

Finished the show tonight. Took me some time to get around to watching it, what with all the negative reviews... In the end I expected so much worse that I'm kind of inclined to say it was rather good.

It's full of flaws of course. It takes itself way too damn seriously to be taken seriously. The dialogues especially fall flat almost throughout the entire thing. One can almost feel the struggle of the actors trying to bring this to life in a somewhat credible way. Many scenes are too long and end up boring the viewer, whose mind is free to look at every little detail and question every single choice they made - and there's a lot to question. Lots of inconsistencies and minor plot holes that take away any sense of tension, and a major character who is laughably childish and pretentious. I can't help but think of Batman v Superman in which Snyder tried to give every scene a mythical vibe - thus killing any narrative dynamism.

Nonetheless, I'd defend it because there's also an attempt to respect the source material, to capture the grandeur of Numenor, the way evil creeps back into the world, the elves' lack of touch with mortals, the men's ever-present temptation to choose the easy path, the magic of simple every day life when connected to nature, the subtle ways in which purity of heart is tainted by obsessions, the dangers of pride and thirst for power... etc. Combined with the quality of the images, this is enough for a passing grade in my book. All in all, they tried. The one thing I would entirely reject is the three evil sorcerers in white, who are so clearly evil that they belong in a disney cartoon, and who can only meet an end as ridiculous as they are (so of course they were wrong - how could they be right about anything with those looks?).
I enjoyed the "where is Sauron?" intrigue, I feel it succeeded in tying everything together and provided the viewer with something to care about. It was perfect for someone like me, with some distant memories of the lore, just enough to quickly guess what the story actually was, while still wondering if the writers would spring a surprise here or there.
They did their best to establish atmosphere, and though I have many issues with the way the story was built, it's harder to find some with the way it was shown. Given that they had to make this entertaining for the greater number, it had to cover the themes of Tolkien's work as elegantly as possible while laying the foundations of a big budget series. Where they truly failed is with the action, which is riddled with tropes and contrivances, to the point where fights can become annoying (and that completely ruins Arondir, who becomes a caricature). The scenes that do create positive emotion tend to be light on action and dialogue, when they make the world itself shine - but without slow-motion. In the end it almost feels like they loosely connected a bunch of these beautiful moments and added a lot of standard filler that they can capitalize on later. It doesn't exactly work, but it leaves one with the well-wrought tone of the show, while much of the writing should quickly be forgotten.
In the future, the show definitely needs to find better balance between the politics, the bucolic (or its destruction), and the actual action/plot. Eliminate the various inconsistencies (starting with Galadriel) and improve the dialogues. There's no guarantee of improvement but I think I'll give the second season a chance.
 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

On 1/2/2023 at 10:07 PM, Rippounet said:

Finished the show tonight. Took me some time to get around to watching it, what with all the negative reviews... In the end I expected so much worse that I'm kind of inclined to say it was rather good.

It's full of flaws of course. It takes itself way too damn seriously to be taken seriously. The dialogues especially fall flat almost throughout the entire thing. One can almost feel the struggle of the actors trying to bring this to life in a somewhat credible way. Many scenes are too long and end up boring the viewer, whose mind is free to look at every little detail and question every single choice they made - and there's a lot to question. Lots of inconsistencies and minor plot holes that take away any sense of tension, and a major character who is laughably childish and pretentious. I can't help but think of Batman v Superman in which Snyder tried to give every scene a mythical vibe - thus killing any narrative dynamism.

Nonetheless, I'd defend it because there's also an attempt to respect the source material, to capture the grandeur of Numenor, the way evil creeps back into the world, the elves' lack of touch with mortals, the men's ever-present temptation to choose the easy path, the magic of simple every day life when connected to nature, the subtle ways in which purity of heart is tainted by obsessions, the dangers of pride and thirst for power... etc. Combined with the quality of the images, this is enough for a passing grade in my book. All in all, they tried. The one thing I would entirely reject is the three evil sorcerers in white, who are so clearly evil that they belong in a disney cartoon, and who can only meet an end as ridiculous as they are (so of course they were wrong - how could they be right about anything with those looks?).
I enjoyed the "where is Sauron?" intrigue, I feel it succeeded in tying everything together and provided the viewer with something to care about. It was perfect for someone like me, with some distant memories of the lore, just enough to quickly guess what the story actually was, while still wondering if the writers would spring a surprise here or there.
They did their best to establish atmosphere, and though I have many issues with the way the story was built, it's harder to find some with the way it was shown. Given that they had to make this entertaining for the greater number, it had to cover the themes of Tolkien's work as elegantly as possible while laying the foundations of a big budget series. Where they truly failed is with the action, which is riddled with tropes and contrivances, to the point where fights can become annoying (and that completely ruins Arondir, who becomes a caricature). The scenes that do create positive emotion tend to be light on action and dialogue, when they make the world itself shine - but without slow-motion. In the end it almost feels like they loosely connected a bunch of these beautiful moments and added a lot of standard filler that they can capitalize on later. It doesn't exactly work, but it leaves one with the well-wrought tone of the show, while much of the writing should quickly be forgotten.
In the future, the show definitely needs to find better balance between the politics, the bucolic (or its destruction), and the actual action/plot. Eliminate the various inconsistencies (starting with Galadriel) and improve the dialogues. There's no guarantee of improvement but I think I'll give the second season a chance.
 

After finishing The Fall of Numenor I have to say this fan fiction version (it’s not an adaptation… it’s just not) of the Second Age of Middle Earth is just… bad.  The actors are trying but the story is just… awful.

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I have to say this fan fiction version (it’s not an adaptation… it’s just not)

To pose a question to someone that revels in semantic discussions - what exactly is the distinction between "adaptation" and "fan fiction?"

[Spockydog]

1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

After finishing The Fall of Numenor I have to say this fan fiction version (it’s not an adaptation… it’s just not) of the Second Age of Middle Earth is just… bad.  The actors are trying but the story is just… awful.

Interested in this, but I just looked at the kindle preview on Amazon.

Holy wall of text, Scotman!

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 minute ago, DMC said:

To pose a question to someone that revels in semantic discussions - what exactly is the distinction between "adaptation" and "fan fiction?"

Compressing the events of 3000+ years into a few months or years.  Pretending any living being could swim thousands of miles of ocean.  Creating some mystical malady for Elves that can be healed by magic silver.  Having Galadriel’s love interest… turn out to be… Sauron.  And then having Galadriel do nothing when she discovers who Sauron actually is.

That isn’t “adaptation” that’s taking the names of characters and places and doing whatever the hell you want with them.  Well acted, perhaps, but nothing at all like the source material.  It reminds me of this:

 

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Compressing the events of 3000+ years into a few months or years.  Pretending any living being could swim thousands of miles of ocean.  Creating some mystical malady for Elves that can be healed by magic silver.  Having Galadriel’s love interest… turn out to be… Sauron.  And then having Galadriel do nothing when she discovers who Sauron actually is.

That isn’t “adaptation” that’s taking the names of characters and places and doing whatever the hell you want with them.  Well acted, perhaps, but nothing at all like the source material.

K, but I don't think I need to tell you in most cases famous "adaptations" make significant changes as well.  Further, this was explicitly not "adapting" from any narrative.  It wasn't allowed to.  So, it seems to me as if the terminology is more an employment for derision than anything.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 minute ago, DMC said:

K, but I don't think I need to tell you in most cases famous "adaptations" make significant changes as well.  Further, this was explicitly not "adapting" from any narrative.  It wasn't allowed to.  So, it seems to me as if the terminology is more an employment for derision than anything.

They have access to the “tale of years” that gives an outline of all the events of the 2nd Age.

[DMC]

Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

They have access to the “tale of years” that gives an outline of all the events of the 2nd Age.

Yeah, like I said, that's not a narrative.

[Zorral]

40 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Compressing the events of 3000+ years into a few months or years.  Pretending any living being could swim thousands of miles of ocean.  Creating some mystical malady for Elves that can be healed by magic silver.  Having Galadriel’s love interest… turn out to be… Sauron.  And then having Galadriel do nothing when she discovers who Sauron actually is.

That isn’t “adaptation” that’s taking the names of characters and places and doing whatever the hell you want with them.  Well acted, perhaps, but nothing at all like the source material.  It reminds me of this:

 

Disagree. Strongly.  Also, not fan fic.  This is actually adaptation from the material available.  I read the book too, as you know.