Will Danaerys be Able to Invade Westeros?

[Curled Finger]

She and her considerable entourage will be enroute by the end of The Winds of Winter...if it ever actually comes.  Fire Princess can land smack in the middle of winter and all will be well.  This is her job.  As fire princess.  She will have no difficulty bringing things to her order and liking in Westeros with her army and allies.  This is also her job.  

[James West]

On 10/17/2022 at 3:59 PM, Corvo the Crow said:

With all these threads about Dany and her army sprouting recently, I believe there is one question that must be answered before all others. Dany is currently at Meereen(well, her forces are) perhaps months of travel away from the western coasts of Essos. Winter has come and we saw that Even the Golden Company, which was already around Volantis, much further west than where Dany was, had trouble crossing the narrow sea by the time they got there. Golden Company has long since left the area and already made their voyage across the sea while Dany is still fixed in Meereen so the weather will get much much worse by the time she's finally prepared to cross the Narrow Sea. Will she be able to cross and Invade Westeros? If GRRM wasn't the kind of writer who was doing plot twists for the sake of plot twists, making them out of thin air with little support or background or whatever, I'd say there's no way that Dany would be able to make to Westeros before the next spring.

One thing you overlooked.  Winter, incompetent leadership, rebellions, and family battles are quickly weakening Westeros.  Daenerys is getting stronger.  Her dragons are growing.  Her armies are getting new recruits day by day.  She even has a church supporting her.  She can and she will sail for Westeros.  

[Craving Peaches]

36 minutes ago, James West said:

Winter, incompetent leadership, rebellions, and family battles are quickly weakening Westeros.

This is just as much a problem for Daenerys as it is for everyone else, if not more of a problem, since her barbaric horde will no doubt burn what little food and fodder is left after taking all they can loot. 

38 minutes ago, James West said:

She even has a church supporting her.

A foreign church that is the most intolerant religion we've seen so far in the series, which will no doubt antagonise everyone else in Westeros.

[Corvo the Crow]

.

[Craving Peaches]

5 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

But sure, Dany will cross because she's fiery.

If anything she would be more vulnerable to the cold, having never even set foot on (mainland) Westeros and never experiencing a Winter there. I can see her wearing Dothraki riding gear, a Qartheen gown or something else wildly inappropriate, getting hypothermia and dying. 

[kissdbyfire]

21 hours ago, James West said:

Her dragons are growing.  Her armies are getting new recruits day by day.  She even has a church supporting her. 

Yeah, WMD and an army of fanatical religious zealots, what could possibly go wrong?

[Oana_Mika]

59 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Yeah, WMD and an army of fanatical religious zealots, what could possibly go wrong?

She obviously won't have everything go smoothly but we don't even know her relation with the red priests because she did not even met them yet. I believe she will want them to respect other's religion since she has a very diverse group and she always respected their customs (except those tied with slavery) and religion and she integrated everyone in her council. As for her dragons (WMD as you called them) she wants to train them so they won't lay her kingdom to waste. I won't lie that it irks me seeing so many comments calling unsullied and dothrakis "saveges" or as in other posts "mob/thugs" . It's also kinda funny people expect them to destroy Westeros when it is already destroyed (and not thx to Dany or them) and Daenerys already has shown she wants victories with as few casualties as possible and Barristan follows through that in the battle for Meereen.

[Oana_Mika]

21 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

If anything she would be more vulnerable to the cold, having never even set foot on (mainland) Westeros and never experiencing a Winter there. I can see her wearing Dothraki riding gear, a Qartheen gown or something else wildly inappropriate, getting hypothermia and dying. 

And why would she wear that?

[BlackLightning]

21 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

If anything she would be more vulnerable to the cold, having never even set foot on (mainland) Westeros and never experiencing a Winter there. I can see her wearing Dothraki riding gear, a Qartheen gown or something else wildly inappropriate, getting hypothermia and dying. 

Good points.

I think it's worth mentioning that Dany is probably going to hate Westeros.

Not only are its customs very restrictive (particularly for women) but the political jockeying about for power is worse there than it is in most places in Essos. Things in Essos are pretty cut-and-dry. Plus, Dany seems to be a lot more used to the government style of a centralized, absolute monarchy whereas Westeros is very decentralized and very feudal. A lot of the cuisines that Dany is fond of cannot be found north of Bitterbridge, least of all in winter. And speaking of winter...the weather.

[Aldarion]

18 minutes ago, Oana_Mika said:

She obviously won't have everything go smoothly but we don't even know her relation with the red priests because she did not even met them yet. I believe she will want them to respect other's religion since she has a very diverse group and she always respected their customs (except those tied with slavery) and religion and she integrated everyone in her council. As for her dragons (WMD as you called them) she wants to train them so they won't lay her kingdom to waste. I won't lie that it irks me seeing so many comments calling unsullied and dothrakis "saveges" or as in other posts "mob/thugs" . It's also kinda funny people expect them to destroy Westeros when it is already destroyed (and not thx to Dany or them) and Daenerys already has shown she wants victories with as few casualties as possible and Barristan follows through that in the battle for Meereen.

Dothraki are savages - their culture apparently calls for genocide, destruction of all agricultural settled cultures, because it is sinful to tear at Mother Earth with axes and plows.

“The thunder of his hooves!” the others chorused. “As swift as the wind he rides, and behind him his khalasar covers the earth, men without number, with arakhs shining in their hands like blades of razor grass. Fierce as a storm this prince will be. His enemies will tremble before him, and their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief. The bells in his hair will sing his coming, and the milk men in the stone tents will fear his name… .  the stallion who mounts the world!”  GoT- Daenerys V

Unsullied are growing less and less disciplined. When I discuss potential warfare in Westeros I tend to give them benefit of the doubt and assume full effectiveness, but it is likely that by the time they reach Westeros they will be an undisciplined mob, worse than Wildlings even.

Not exactly a prime PR material there.

[kissdbyfire]

20 minutes ago, Oana_Mika said:

WMD as you called them

I want all the dragons to survive to the end of the story.
 

And no, I didn’t call them WMD, Martin did. 

[Oana_Mika]

5 hours ago, Aldarion said:

Dothraki are savages - their culture apparently calls for genocide, destruction of all agricultural settled cultures, because it is sinful to tear at Mother Earth with axes and plows.

“The thunder of his hooves!” the others chorused. “As swift as the wind he rides, and behind him his khalasar covers the earth, men without number, with arakhs shining in their hands like blades of razor grass. Fierce as a storm this prince will be. His enemies will tremble before him, and their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief. The bells in his hair will sing his coming, and the milk men in the stone tents will fear his name… .  the stallion who mounts the world!”  GoT- Daenerys V

Unsullied are growing less and less disciplined. When I discuss potential warfare in Westeros I tend to give them benefit of the doubt and assume full effectiveness, but it is likely that by the time they reach Westeros they will be an undisciplined mob.

Not exactly a prime PR material there.

The Wildlings are slso called savages by westerosi and they steal, rape, murder, loot and follow only the strong so they are not mews mews. As for TSWMTW prophecy, you also forget this : 

 

"The stallion is the khal of khals promised in ancient prophecy, child. He will unite the Dothraki into a single khalasar and ride to the ends of the earth, or so it was promised. All the people of the world will be his herd." - AGOT, Daenerys V

 

So to me, it has more to do with uniting people than murder and plunder, as you like to think.

[Oana_Mika]

5 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I want all the dragons to survive to the end of the story.
 

And no, I didn’t call them WMD, Martin did. 

I am aware of his comparison. It was made to show that she has the most powerful creatures at her commands but many like to forget that other two will also get them, Jon being one of them. Though I'm sure they will start being more charitable to them and less trembling once he gets one.

[Aldarion]

Just now, Oana_Mika said:

The Wildlings are slso called savages by westerosi and they they steal, rape, murder, loot and follow only the strong. They are also not mews mews. As for TSWMTW prophecy, you also forget this : 

 

"The stallion is the khal of khals promised in ancient prophecy, child. He will unite the Dothraki into a single khalasar and ride to the ends of the earth, or so it was promised. All the people of the world will be his herd." - AGOT, Daenerys V

 

So to me, it has more to do with uniting people than murder and plunder, as you like to think.

And why do you think that "all the people of the world will be his herd" precludes murder and plunder? Historically, ideologies which called for "all humans to be brothers" had been behind some of the worst genocides ever. Considering everything else about the Dothraki, their beliefs, their religion and how they actually behave, I really see no possibility for coexistence between Dothraki and settled cultures. Not if the Dothraki believe themselves to be at an advantage, anyway.

[SeanF]

12 minutes ago, Aldarion said:

Dothraki are savages - their culture apparently calls for genocide, destruction of all agricultural settled cultures, because it is sinful to tear at Mother Earth with axes and plows.

“The thunder of his hooves!” the others chorused. “As swift as the wind he rides, and behind him his khalasar covers the earth, men without number, with arakhs shining in their hands like blades of razor grass. Fierce as a storm this prince will be. His enemies will tremble before him, and their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief. The bells in his hair will sing his coming, and the milk men in the stone tents will fear his name… .  the stallion who mounts the world!”  GoT- Daenerys V

Unsullied are growing less and less disciplined. When I discuss potential warfare in Westeros I tend to give them benefit of the doubt and assume full effectiveness, but it is likely that by the time they reach Westeros they will be an undisciplined mob, worse than Wildlings even.

Not exactly a prime PR material there.

From what we  can see of them , the lords and knights of Westeros are likewise savages, as much as the Dothraki are.  If you have the misfortune to be in the path of Tywin Lannister or Hoster Tully, the outcome is no different to being a target for the Dothraki.

The Dothraki may once have favoured genocide.  Mostly now, they prefer protection money.

[Lord Varys]

It should be pretty easy, since Daenerys is not going to be as stupid as to ship her forces from Slaver's Bay to Westeros - or at least not the bulk of them. The forces already at Slaver's Bay are likely going to make use of Victarion's ships and use them to move first to Volantis, then to Lys and Tyrosh, and from there to wherever Dany wants to land.

The bulk of the Dothraki forces would likely take ship from Pentos and Myr, after those cities have fallen to her forces. From there it is only a short journey by ship to Westeros.

Food and provisions should also be no problem. The bulk of Essos is further in the south than most of Westeros, and the lands there have been peaceful and quiet so far, so Dany should have enormous amounts of food she can take possession of.

George wouldn't put Dany into a position where she can conquer effectively the entire world only for her to lose most or all of those assets. That would make little sense, narrative-wise - or only if it was pretty clear that her plot was one of failure as a mundane conqueror and not, you know, that of a prophesied savior fighting some evil ice demons.

[Aldarion]

5 minutes ago, SeanF said:

From what we  can see of them , the lords and knights of Westeros are likewise savages, as much as the Dothraki are.  If you have the misfortune to be in the path of Tywin Lannister or Hoster Tully, the outcome is no different to being a target for the Dothraki.

The Dothraki may once have favoured genocide.  Mostly now, they prefer protection money.

Nah, nowhere close, at least not if you compare them to the original Dothraki. What Tywin does with Riverlands is fairly standard medieval warfare type. It is resource denial, not aimed genocide, as bad as it can be for the common people. Look at literally every war ever and you will see that kind of strategy being used.

But yeah, you are correct that Dothraki appear to have changed. I'm still worried they may try to revert.

[kissdbyfire]

8 minutes ago, Oana_Mika said:

I am aware of his comparison. It was made to show that she has the most powerful creatures at her commands but many like to forget that other two will also get them, Jon being one of them. Though I'm sure they will start being more charitable to them and less trembling once he gets one.

Making an awful lot of assumptions there, aren’t you? 

[Craving Peaches]

28 minutes ago, Oana_Mika said:

And why would she wear that?

It was a joke.

[StarkTullies]

Objectively looking at it, I'd say it would be difficult for Daenerys to invade.  But that's the story or otherwise her character has no point, so of course she will invade.  Whether she successfully invades is another matter.

I think her invasion will be a catastrophe.  Daenerys is surely the prophesized "stallion who mounts the world" who will unite the Dothraki into one kalasar, but the Dothraki won't be well-behaved.  There is no reason to think they will stop murdering, raping, and enslaving in Westeros like they have done in Essos.  They will fulfill Drogo's promise to his adoring wife:  "I will kill the men in the iron suits and tear down their stone houses. I will rape their women, take their children as slaves, and bring their broken gods back to Vaes Dothrak to bow down beneath the Mother of Mountains."

If Daenerys intends to keep the peace in Slavers Bay after she leaves, she will leave the Unsullied behind... because who else could she leave?  Not the Dothraki.  Not the sellswords.  Though I think it is quite likely that Daenerys will leave Slavers Bay in far worse condition than she found it... in which case the Unsullied would be her best asset in Westeros.

Then there are Dany's dragons, but her dragons are relatively small and not "burn down entire cities" size yet.  I also don't think all three dragons will still be in her control by the time she inevitably arrives in Westeros, so I see the dragons as a wildcard.

I don't know where Dany will land on the hero/villain spectrum when the story is completed, but regardless, this isn't a story about a savior flying across the sea to make everything right.  Things will only get worse in Westeros upon her arrival, whether she intends it that way or not.  Uncontrollable dragons, uncontrollable Dothraki, and another player in the civil war that has destroyed the realm.