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Will Danaerys be Able to Invade Westeros?


Corvo the Crow

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1 minute ago, Aldarion said:

And why do you think that "all the people of the world will be his herd" precludes murder and plunder? Historically, ideologies which called for "all humans to be brothers" had been behind some of the worst genocides ever. Considering everything else about the Dothraki, their beliefs, their religion and how they actually behave, I really see no possibility for coexistence between Dothraki and settled cultures. Not if the Dothraki believe themselves to be at an advantage, anyway.

Because they also seem to have a prophecy about the Long Night

 

 "Here and now," Ser Jorah agreed. "You ought to see it when it blooms, all dark red flowers from horizon to horizon, like a sea of blood. Come the dry season, and the world turns the color of old bronze. And this is only hranna, child. There are a hundred kinds of grass out there, grasses as yellow as lemon and as dark as indigo, blue grasses and orange grasses and grasses like rainbows. Down in the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai, they say there are oceans of ghost grass, taller than a man on horseback with stalks as pale as milkglass. It murders all other grass and glows in the dark with the spirits of the damned. The Dothraki claim that someday ghost grass will cover the entire world, and then all life will end." -AGOT, Dsenerys III

 

And because Daenerys already showed disdain for such things (as we saw in Drogo's fight with the other khalassar in the Lhazareen village)

 

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Just now, Aldarion said:

Nah, nowhere close, at least not if you compare them to the original Dothraki. What Tywin does with Riverlands is fairly standard medieval warfare type. It is resource denial, not aimed genocide, as bad as it can be for the common people. Look at literally every war ever and you will see that kind of strategy being used.

But yeah, you are correct that Dothraki appear to have changed.

The fighting we see is standard medieval warfare - for wars against heretics and crusades against the infidel.  In such wars, the enemy were treated as being beyond the bounds of humanity, and could be slaughtered down to the last woman and child, and enslaved.  Tywin goes well beyond simply pillaging enemy civilians and explicitly orders murder and rape.  Hoster had the inhabitants of a village put to the sword, because their lord defied him.

This goes beyond the bounds of normal inter-baronial warfare where complete extermination was rarely the aim.

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8 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Making an awful lot of assumptions there, aren’t you? 

Seeing how her invasion is talked in general (not only on this forum), how people are more inclined to see her as a villain because of the dragons and the precise quote you mentioned and how she is very often excluded from "the heroes team" unlike the Starks, yeah, I kinda believe that. I know they are also unfarly judged but I don't think they are as much as she.

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8 minutes ago, SeanF said:

The fighting we see is standard medieval warfare - for wars against heretics and crusades against the infidel.  In such wars, the enemy were treated as being beyond the bounds of humanity, and could be slaughtered down to the last woman and child, and enslaved.  Tywin goes well beyond simply pillaging enemy civilians and explicitly orders murder and rape.  Hoster had the inhabitants of a village put to the sword, because their lord defied him.

This goes beyond the bounds of normal inter-baronial warfare where complete extermination was rarely the aim.

Except it is not inter-baronial warfare. What it seems to me is that it is much closer to inter-kingdom warfare: Tywin is essentially treating the Riverlands as a separate kingdom even before they secede. Keep in mind that the series is based on 15th century warfare... and while Wars of the Roses may not have been that bad, English regularly burned and pillaged French countryside during the Hundred Years War (see chevauchee). Ottoman wars in Hungary and Croatia were even worse, with both sides doing their best to completely depopulate enemy's countryiside, very quickly creating utterly empty no-man's land stretching both sides of the border. Some areas such as Modruš faced significant depopulation as early as 1486.

10 minutes ago, Oana_Mika said:

Because they also seem to have a prophecy about the Long Night

 

 "Here and now," Ser Jorah agreed. "You ought to see it when it blooms, all dark red flowers from horizon to horizon, like a sea of blood. Come the dry season, and the world turns the color of old bronze. And this is only hranna, child. There are a hundred kinds of grass out there, grasses as yellow as lemon and as dark as indigo, blue grasses and orange grasses and grasses like rainbows. Down in the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai, they say there are oceans of ghost grass, taller than a man on horseback with stalks as pale as milkglass. It murders all other grass and glows in the dark with the spirits of the damned. The Dothraki claim that someday ghost grass will cover the entire world, and then all life will end." -AGOT, Dsenerys III

 

And because Daenerys already showed disdain for such things (as we saw in Drogo's fight with the other khalassar in the Lhazareen village)

 

Why would that prevent them from behaving the way they usually do?

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Dany’s invasion is not going to be all sweetness and light.  No war is.  But, I expect it will be more at Stannis’ or Robb Stark’s levels of brutality, rather than Tywin’s, Ramsay’s, or Prince Daeron’s.

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8 minutes ago, Aldarion said:

Except it is not inter-baronial warfare. What it seems to me is that it is much closer to inter-kingdom warfare: Tywin is essentially treating the Riverlands as a separate kingdom even before they secede. Keep in mind that the series is based on 15th century warfare... and while Wars of the Roses may not have been that bad, English regularly burned and pillaged French countryside during the Hundred Years War (see chevauchee). Ottoman wars in Hungary and Croatia were even worse, with both sides doing their best to completely depopulate enemy's countryiside, very quickly creating utterly empty no-man's land stretching both sides of the border. Some areas such as Modruš faced significant depopulation as early as 1486.

Why would that prevent them from behaving the way they usually do?

Oh, sure.  The Hundred Years War was savage, as was fighting against the Ottomans, in the Balkans and Mediterranean.  One could add in the Thirty Years War and the Deluge.  These were all wars waged without restraint on any side. But then, I don’t see much difference between the participants in such wars and Dothraki, other than possession of coats of arms.  And that’s how a lot of Westerosi wage wars.

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On 10/18/2022 at 12:58 PM, Corvo the Crow said:

I can't see any similarities apart from being foreign invaders. Aegon united the seven kingdoms while when William invaded Heptarchy was already unified as England. Since they weren't unified, there's no throne that Aegon was pretender to either.

Aegon was far less of a foreigner than Daenerys is and will be. He and his sister-wives lived on Dragonstone, visited and studied many times the lands that they would eventually conquer and knew the cultures, customs and religions of the kingdoms, and they were known by the kings and lords of Westeros already. 

Daenerys on the other hand has spent all of her life outside of Westeros, she certainely doesn't know the continent too well and you can be sure that there be some surprises and culture clashes with her and her Essosi followers.

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Just now, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

Aegon was far less of a foreigner than Daenerys is and will be. He and his sister-wives visited and studied many times the lands that they would eventually conquer and knew the cultures, customs and religions of the kingdoms, and they were known by the kings and lords of Westeros already. 

Daenerys on the other hand has spent all of her life outside of Westeros, she certainely doesn't know the continent too well and you can be sure that there be some surprises and culture clashes with her and her Essosi followers.

That probably matters less in a medieval world than in ours.

Most people who ruled medieval England spoke a language and had customs that differed from those of the natives.

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5 minutes ago, SeanF said:

That probably matters less in a medieval world than in ours.

Most people who ruled medieval England spoke a language and had customs that differed from those of the natives.

The Seven Kingdoms aren't medieval England, and the kings and lords that ruled weren't considered foreigners by their subjects, and were still far closer culturally to their subjects that Daenerys, her dothraki, Unsullied, mereenese and other essosi followers will be for most westerosi. 

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1 minute ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

The Seven Kingdoms aren't medieval England, and the kings and lords that ruled weren't considered foreigners by their subjects, and were still far closer culturally to their subjects that Daenerys, her dothraki, Unsullied, mereenese and other essosi followers will be for most westerosi. 

It’s mostly medieval England scaled up to the size of South America. What matters to most of the population is keeping their lands, and no interference in the practice of their religion.

So, if suppose Dany tried to replace the current lords with Dothraki and Meereenese, and to force the population to worship R’hllor, she’d have real trouble on her hands.  If she doesn’t, she won’t.

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Just now, SeanF said:

It’s mostly medieval England scaled up to the size of South America. What matters to most of the population is keeping their lands, and no interference in the practice of their religion.

So, if suppose Dany tried to replace the current lords with Dothraki and Meereenese, and to force the population to worship R’hllor, she’d have real trouble on her hands.  If she doesn’t, she won’t.

Dothraki have a rather well-deserved reputation for being cruel barbarian raiders, and we have seen that the closest people to them in Westeros (Ironborn and Free Folks) are strongly reviled by most westerosi, and I strongly doubt that Daenerys will be able of changing their ways that much. 

Also the sight of Unsullied is certainely going to make many uneasy and believe that Daenerys has brought slave-soldiers to Westeros.

And that's not counting the Red Priests. 

Besides in general most westerosi don't have a high opinion of essosi, which is reciprocated, and most members of the Small Council or other associates of the crown coming from Free Cities weren't popular with the nobles and smallfolks in history. And we have also seen how prejudiced westerosi can be toward other ethnicities from the Seven Kingdoms.

So no I don't think that most people in the Seven Kingdoms are going to be indifferent or cool toward Daenerys and her essosi followers.

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52 minutes ago, Aldarion said:

Why would that prevent them from behaving the way they usually do?

Since I saw you edited your answer, I'll just say that I believe they won't behave like they usually do because Daeneeys, TSWMTW and their leader will not want that so they will follow her lead. She already made her tiny khalassar cross the poisoned water and they do not behave the way they did in Drogo's khalassar because she is not like him or other khals so it's natural that with a different leader, comes changes. And with the prophecy about the ghost grass, they will also stop fighing against eachother, finally working together.

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5 minutes ago, Oana_Mika said:

Since I saw you edited your answer, I'll just say that I believe they won't behave like they usually do because Daeneeys, TSWMTW and their leader will not want that so they will follow her lead. She already made her tiny khalassar cross the poisoned water and they do not behave the way they did in Drogo's khalassar because she is not like him or other khals so it's natural that with a different leader, comes changes. And with the prophecy about the ghost grass, they will also stop fighing against eachother, finally working together.

In any case, people tend to be a product of their environment.  Any number of “barbarians” have changed the way they live, once they become landowners/farmers/soldiers etc.  The Danes who settled England are an obvious example, but there are plenty of others.

That’s a major point of Ygritte’s singing the Last of the Giants.  Even if the wildlings settle successfully South of the Wall, their culture will die out.

I expect Dany will have to bargain with the Dothraki.  They must end enslavement, rape, murdering each other;  and in return, she’ll give them the wealth and lands of the upper classes of Volantis, Tolos, Mantarys and parts of Essos.

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Dany's arrival in Westeros begins the ending act of the novels.  It will be long from the present time because the dragons will need their time to grow.  She could take the long way as Quaithe wants her to.  The OP is right about one thing, the weather will have worsened and gotten darker. 

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8 hours ago, Oana_Mika said:

Since I saw you edited your answer, I'll just say that I believe they won't behave like they usually do because Daeneeys, TSWMTW and their leader will not want that so they will follow her lead. She already made her tiny khalassar cross the poisoned water and they do not behave the way they did in Drogo's khalassar because she is not like him or other khals so it's natural that with a different leader, comes changes. And with the prophecy about the ghost grass, they will also stop fighing against eachother, finally working together.

Thing is, if she manages to get huge numbers of Dothraki follow her, that will be because they will believe her to be the Stallion That Mounts the World. And large groups are far less susceptible to individual influence than small groups. Sure, there is a possibility that she will reform them... but IMO, it is far more likely that her Dothraki will just act the way they normally do. A lot of nomads were able to coexist with settled peoples, but these did not have the disdain for agricultural societies that Dothraki seem to do.

9 hours ago, SeanF said:

Oh, sure.  The Hundred Years War was savage, as was fighting against the Ottomans, in the Balkans and Mediterranean.  One could add in the Thirty Years War and the Deluge.  These were all wars waged without restraint on any side. But then, I don’t see much difference between the participants in such wars and Dothraki, other than possession of coats of arms.  And that’s how a lot of Westerosi wage wars.

Indeed.

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13 hours ago, Oana_Mika said:

Daenerys already has shown she wants victories with as few casualties as possible

That has not been shown:

"Slay the Good Masters, slay the soldiers, slay every man who wears a tokar or holds a whip, but harm no child under twelve."

Daenerys ordered the deaths of a lot of 12-year-old boys.  I know the counterargument that "they are slavers and they deserved to die!"  Wearing a tokar is a symbol of being upper class (the same upper class Daenerys was born into), not necessarily of being a slaver (though in Astapor, that may be one and the same... or may not be).  Regardless, the 12-year-olds have no say in the matter.

"Slaves, Dany thought.  Khal Drogo would drive them downriver to one of the towns on Slaver's Bay.  She wanted to cry, but she told herself that she must be strong.  This is war, this is what it looks like, this is the price of the Iron Throne."

Daenerys is "sad" at all the innocents who died and were being enslaved by her "sun and stars" at her own request, but she considers it an acceptable price for a throne she feels entitled too.  Thousands dead, thousands enslaved.  This is not "as few casualties as possible".

13 hours ago, Oana_Mika said:

"The stallion is the khal of khals promised in ancient prophecy, child. He will unite the Dothraki into a single khalasar and ride to the ends of the earth, or so it was promised. All the people of the world will be his herd." - AGOT, Daenerys V

 

So to me, it has more to do with uniting people than murder and plunder, as you like to think.

What about Mirri Maz Duur's interpretation of the prophecy about "burning cities" and "trampling nations into dust"?  I think her interpretation is more accurate.  Shepherds have no problem slaughtering the sheep of their own "herd".

That said, it is clear that prophecies in this story are not all they seem to be.

13 hours ago, Oana_Mika said:

The Wildlings are slso called savages by westerosi and they steal, rape, murder, loot and follow only the strong so they are not mews mews.

Jon let the Free Folk through the Wall to save their lives.  Daenerys plans to lead Dothraki where they don't want to go for the specific purpose of invasion.  There's a difference.

I hate the Free Folk notion of "stealing women" as a marriage proposal, but at least their weddings aren't a "dull affair" if it isn't accompanied by multiple murders.  The Free Folk don't steal, rape, or murder any more than those south of the Wall.  Following only the strong, rather than following an entitled brat born into a royal family, is not a bad thing.

The Free Folk are much better developed than the Dothraki.  Is that because George Martin is biased?  Or is that because we see the Free Folk through Jon's eyes who views them as people, while Daenerys only sees the Dothraki as her "subjects"?

13 hours ago, Oana_Mika said:

I am aware of his comparison. It was made to show that she has the most powerful creatures at her commands but many like to forget that other two will also get them, Jon being one of them. Though I'm sure they will start being more charitable to them and less trembling once he gets one.

I will be charitable or non-charitable to the dragons depending on how they are used, not based on who rides them.

13 hours ago, Oana_Mika said:

Because they also seem to have a prophecy about the Long Night

Most cultures have predictions about the end of the world.  Ghost grass is not a metaphor about the Others, and I don't think any prophecies about ghost grass will convince the Dothraki to unite peacefully to fight against a common foe.  Dany plans to bring the Dothraki to Westeros to fight for the Iron Throne, not to fight the Others.  If Dany helps against the Others, it will be with her dragon(s).

13 hours ago, Oana_Mika said:

She already made her tiny khalassar cross the poisoned water and they do not behave the way they did in Drogo's khalassar because she is not like him or other khals so it's natural that with a different leader, comes changes.

"Tiny" khalasar is the key term.  They were loyal to her because they specifically knew her, and because they saw her walk out of that fire unburnt.  A single person can't and won't change the culture of hundreds of thousands of people overnight.  They will cross the sea for their new "goddess", but they aren't going to stop murdering and raping.  I doubt that Dany will even request that they do.  George Martin doesn't write stories for everything to be neatly tied up in a little bow, and I wouldn't be reading these books if he did.

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6 minutes ago, StarkTullies said:

Daenerys ordered the deaths of a lot of 12-year-old boys.  I know the counterargument that "they are slavers and they deserved to die!"  Wearing a tokar is a symbol of being upper class (the same upper class Daenerys was born into), not necessarily of being a slaver (though in Astapor, that may be one and the same... or may not be).  Regardless, the 12-year-olds have no say in the matter.

There was no way to know who was guilty and who was not, but they all get punished anyway. Same with the torture of the Wineseller and his daughters. It is unknown whether they are innocent or guilty but they are tortured anyway. This is the issue.

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3 hours ago, StarkTullies said:

"Slay the Good Masters, slay the soldiers, slay every man who wears a tokar or holds a whip, but harm no child under twelve."

Daenerys ordered the deaths of a lot of 12-year-old boys.  I know the counterargument that "they are slavers and they deserved to die!"  Wearing a tokar is a symbol of being upper class (the same upper class Daenerys was born into), not necessarily of being a slaver (though in Astapor, that may be one and the same... or may not be).  Regardless, the 12-year-olds have no say in the matter.

 

"harm no child under twelve" does not mean "kill everyone beyond 11" and as I understood, in ASOIAF people are started being judged as adults way earlier. I know that the age of legitimacy in Westeros is 16 but that does not mean boys until that age are thought as being kids. Daenerys at the age of 13 is sold off and at 14 she is already expected to give birth, Sansa as soon as she "flourishes" she is considered a woman (and girls "flourish" around the age of 13). Osric Stark, a brother or son of a King in the North, was chosen Lord Commander when he was ten, making him the youngest Lord Commander of the Night's Watch.

If Martin would have wanted us to believe that Daenerys kills children, why make that caveat anyway? Why show her being sick at the sight of the 163 children nailed on posts or why show her refuse to kill her child hostages?

And the tokar is a master's garment, not the symbol of the upper class :

 

The garment was a clumsy thing, a long loose shapeless sheet that had to be wound around her hips and under an arm and over a shoulder, its dangling fringes carefully layered and displayed. Wound too loose, it was like to fall off; wound too tight, it would tangle, trip, and bind. Even wound properly, the tokar required its wearer to hold it in place with the left hand. Walking in a tokar demanded small, mincing steps and exquisite balance, lest one tread upon those heavy trailing fringes. It was not a garment meant for any man who had to work. The tokar was a master's garment, a sign of wealth and power. - A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys I

 

If you notice, it's very hard to do anything while wearing it, that's why only the masters wear it, because they have slaves to do the work for them.

 

3 hours ago, StarkTullies said:

"Slaves, Dany thought.  Khal Drogo would drive them downriver to one of the towns on Slaver's Bay.  She wanted to cry, but she told herself that she must be strong.  This is war, this is what it looks like, this is the price of the Iron Throne."

Daenerys is "sad" at all the innocents who died and were being enslaved by her "sun and stars" at her own request, but she considers it an acceptable price for a throne she feels entitled too.  Thousands dead, thousands enslaved.  This is not "as few casualties as possible".

 

Daenerys was sold to Drogo, she did not chose to be his bride. She only asks him to conquer Westeros once and he refuses. He only heeds when he hears about the poison attempt and until now she had only traveled with them so she most likely had no rape, pillage and enslavement in mind when she wanted to go to Westeros, the place where her family lived :

 

When he had taken his pleasure, Khal Drogo rose from their sleeping mats to tower above her. His skin shone dark as bronze in the ruddy light from the brazier, the faint lines of old scars visible on his broad chest. Ink-black hair, loose and unbound, cascaded over his shoulders and down his back, well past his waist. His manhood glistened wetly. The khal's mouth twisted in a frown beneath the droop of his long mustachio. "The stallion who mounts the world has no need of iron chairs."
Dany propped herself on an elbow to look up at him, so tall and magnificent. She loved his hair especially. It had never been cut; he had never known defeat. "It was prophesied that the stallion will ride to the ends of the earth," she said.
"The earth ends at the black salt sea," Drogo answered at once. He wet a cloth in a basin of warm water to wipe the sweat and oil from his skin. "No horse can cross the poison water."
"In the Free Cities, there are ships by the thousand," Dany told him, as she had told him before. "Wooden horses with a hundred legs, that fly across the sea on wings full of wind."
Khal Drogo did not want to hear it. "We will speak no more of wooden horses and iron chairs." He dropped the cloth and began to dress. "This day I will go to the grass and hunt, woman wife," he announced as he shrugged into a painted vest and buckled on a wide belt with heavy medallions of silver, gold, and bronze. - A Game of Thrones - Daenerys VI
 
The brazier was cold again by the time Khal Drogo returned. Cohollo was leading a packhorse behind him, with the carcass of a great white lion slung across its back. Above, the stars were coming out. The khal laughed as he swung down off his stallion and showed her the scars on his leg where the hrakkar had raked him through his leggings. "I shall make you a cloak of its skin, moon of my life," he swore.
When Dany told him what had happened at the market, all laughter stopped, and Khal Drogo grew very quiet.
"This poisoner was the first," Ser Jorah Mormont warned him, "but he will not be the last. Men will risk much for a lordship."
Drogo was silent for a time. Finally he said, "This seller of poisons ran from the moon of my life. Better he should run after her. So he will. Jhogo, Jorah the Andal, to each of you I say, choose any horse you wish from my herds, and it is yours. Any horse save my red and the silver that was my bride gift to the moon of my life. I make this gift to you for what you did.
"And to Rhaego son of Drogo, the stallion who will mount the world, to him I also pledge a gift. To him I will give this iron chair his mother's father sat in. I will give him Seven Kingdoms. I, Drogo, khal, will do this thing." His voice rose, and he lifted his fist to the sky. "I will take my khalasar west to where the world ends, and ride the wooden horses across the black salt water as no khal has done before. I will kill the men in the iron suits and tear down their stone houses. I will rape their women, take their children as slaves, and bring their broken gods back to Vaes Dothrak to bow down beneath the Mother of Mountains. This I vow, I, Drogo son of Bharbo. This I swear before the Mother of Mountains, as the stars look down in witness." - A Game of Thrones - Daenerys VI
 
So you can see that Drogo does what Drogo pleases.
 
You also forget that the Lhazareen village is already attacked by another Khal when Drogo arrived :
 
Ogo and his son had shared the high bench with her lord husband at the naming feast where Viserys had been crowned, but that was in Vaes Dothrak, beneath the Mother of Mountains, where every rider was a brother and all quarrels were put aside. It was different out in the grass. Ogo's khalasar had been attacking the town when Khal Drogo caught him. She wondered what the Lamb Men had thought, when they first saw the dust of their horses from atop those cracked-mud walls. Perhaps a few, the younger and more foolish who still believed that the gods heard the prayers of desperate men, took it for deliverance. - A Game of Thrones - Daenerys VII
 
You also forget that a few lines after the quote you posted (her wanting to cry that slaves were being brought to Slaver's Bay) she stops the raping of the women around her :
 
Behind them, the girl being raped made a heartrending sound, a long sobbing wail that went on and on and on. Dany's hand clenched hard around the reins, and she turned the silver's head. "Make them stop," she commanded Ser Jorah.
"Khaleesi?" The knight sounded perplexed.

"You heard my words," she said. "Stop them." She spoke to her khas in the harsh accents of Dothraki. "Jhogo, Quaro, you will aid Ser Jorah. I want no rape."
The warriors exchanged a baffled look.
Jorah Mormont spurred his horse closer. "Princess," he said, "you have a gentle heart, but you do not understand. This is how it has always been. Those men have shed blood for the khal. Now they claim their reward."

Across the road, the girl was still crying, her high singsong tongue strange to Dany's ears. The first man was done with her now, and a second had taken his place.
"She is a lamb girl," Quaro said in Dothraki. "She is nothing, Khaleesi. The riders do her honor. The Lamb Men lay with sheep, it is known."
"It is known," her handmaid Irri echoed.
"It is known," agreed Jhogo, astride the tall grey stallion that Drogo had given him. "If her wailing offends your ears, Khaleesi, Jhogo will bring you her tongue." He drew his arakh.
"I will not have her harmed," Dany said. "I claim her. Do as I command you, or Khal Drogo will know the reason why."
"Ai, Khaleesi," Jhogo replied, kicking his horse. Quaro and the others followed his lead, the bells in their hair chiming.
"Go with them," she commanded Ser Jorah.
"As you command." The knight gave her a curious look. "You are your brother's sister, in truth."
"Viserys?" She did not understand.
"No," he answered. "Rhaegar." He galloped off.
- A Game ofThrones - Daenerys VII
 
You also forget that khaleesi is an empty title after all, because the little power she has derives from Drogo :
 
When she was done, Drogo was frowning. "This is the way of war. These women are our slaves now, to do with as we please."
"It pleases me to hold them safe," Dany said, wondering if she had dared too much. "If your warriors would mount these women, let them take them gently and keep them for wives. Give them places in the khalasar and let them bear you sons." - A Game of Thrones - Daenerys VII
 
Ser Jorah stepped between them, loosening his longsword in its scabbard. "Rein in your tongue, bloodrider. The princess is still your khaleesi."
"Only while the blood-of-my-blood still lives," Qotho told the knight. "When he dies, she is nothing." - A Game of Thrones - Daenerys VIII
 
So Daenerys had no say in where, when, how and whom Drogo and his khalasar will attack.
You also forget that before entering the pyre she frees all the slaves that remained there after Drogo's khalasar shattered :
 

"You will be my khalasar," she told them. "I see the faces of slaves. I free you. Take off your collars. Go if you wish, no one shall harm you. If you stay, it will be as brothers and sisters, husbands and wives." The black eyes watched her, wary, expressionless. "I see the children, women, the wrinkled faces of the aged. I was a child yesterday. Today I am a woman. Tomorrow I will be old. To each of you I say, give me your hands and your hearts, and there will always be a place for you." - A Game of Thrones - Daenerys X

 

3 hours ago, StarkTullies said:

What about Mirri Maz Duur's interpretation of the prophecy about "burning cities" and "trampling nations into dust"?  I think her interpretation is more accurate.  Shepherds have no problem slaughtering the sheep of their own "herd".

That said, it is clear that prophecies in this story are not all they seem to be.

  Mirri, as well as the rest, got it wrong who the Stallion was : it was never Rhaego, but Daenerys and as I said earlier, I believe the prophecy is about uniting people for the Long Night.

 

3 hours ago, StarkTullies said:

The Free Folk are much better developed than the Dothraki.  Is that because George Martin is biased?  Or is that because we see the Free Folk through Jon's eyes who views them as people, while Daenerys only sees the Dothraki as her "subjects"?

 

Daenerys sees the dothrakis as her khalasar and Jon is also in a position of power as LC so he is not exactly budy budy with them, he is also an authority. I believe it's more dues to the lack of characterison from Martin but it's also from the bias that people have and that expect Daenerys and "her mob" to destroy" Westeros (as if Westeros is this great utopia that foreigners come to destrroy with their barbaric ways and who will never comprehend the complexity of westerosi people)

 

3 hours ago, StarkTullies said:

Most cultures have predictions about the end of the world.  Ghost grass is not a metaphor about the Others, and I don't think any prophecies about ghost grass will convince the Dothraki to unite peacefully to fight against a common foe.  Dany plans to bring the Dothraki to Westeros to fight for the Iron Throne, not to fight the Others.  If Dany helps against the Others, it will be with her dragon(s).

 

Daenerys has always shown to avoid unnecesary bloodshed and she always prefers peaceful solutions to violent ones. That's why she lets Yunkai untouched and she strikes a peace with the masters, the opressors of her children. As for her bringing dothrakis to fight for the Throne, not against The Others, well, she has Marwin and Morroqo on her way to tell her about The Long Night and Sam also know about this and the AA prophecy . Do you believe that the only thing she will bring in the fight with The Others will be her dragons? What will she do with the soldiers that come with her?

 

3 hours ago, StarkTullies said:

"Tiny" khalasar is the key term.  They were loyal to her because they specifically knew her, and because they saw her walk out of that fire unburnt.  A single person can't and won't change the culture of hundreds of thousands of people overnight.  They will cross the sea for their new "goddess", but they aren't going to stop murdering and raping.  I doubt that Dany will even request that they do.  George Martin doesn't write stories for everything to be neatly tied up in a little bow, and I wouldn't be reading these books if he did.

 

Well, it's your choice to see Daenerys' followers as mindless thugs. I believe they will simply listen to her (as she is their leader) and giving the fact that she does not want to make unecessary damage, they will be far less destructive as the majority of the fandom expects.

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