Craving Peaches Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 6 minutes ago, Quoth the raven, said: Sansa bears partial guilt for the child's death. Sansa bears no guilt at all because nothing she did caused or resulted in Mycah's death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 Why the question, lol ? Do you think that Sandor Clegane wasn't alone when he went after him or that someone else than Cersei or Joffrey ordered the kill ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 I plead no case to answer to the charge of murder of Mycah, on behalf of my client, Sansa Stark. I plead no case to answer to the charge of manslaughter of Mycah, on behalf of my client, Sansa Stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Vader Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 On 10/20/2022 at 2:23 PM, Craving Peaches said: The Hound and Whoever ordered him to do it (if applicable). Blaming Arya is silly. Nobles and commoners associating is not a crime. Blaming Mycah himself is the stupidest thing though. He didn't even look at Joffrey wrong. This and nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 On 10/20/2022 at 9:49 AM, Moiraine Sedai said: Who was responsible for Micah’s violent ending? It isn’t just Sandor. All of them are. Micah too. a) Joffrey. Bad conduct for a prince. He’s not honest. He also has a cruel streak. b) Sansa covered for Joffrey. c) Sandor is the adult but he was a sworn protector of his prince. Micah attacked his protectee. He was lied to. The only excuse (but valid): he was ordered. d) Arya should have better explained what happened. Moreover, she should obey the social boundaries between her class and the boy’s. e). Micah made a bad call to befriend Arya. It was too dangerous to hang out with the governing class. He was too comfortable around Arya. He broke social boundaries. Agree? Sansa killed Micah . Sansa hated him according to AGoT .She blamed Micah for Arya not wanting to hang out with her and Myrcella . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 7 hours ago, BRANDON GREYSTARK said: Sansa killed Micah But nothing Sansa did affected whether Mycah died or not. How could she have killed him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said: But nothing Sansa did affected whether Mycah died or not. How could she have killed him? She warged into Sandor Clegane, and made him kill Mycah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 On 10/25/2022 at 12:52 PM, Craving Peaches said: Illyn refusing the order makes no difference to whether Eddard dies or not. It would just be by another's hand. Illyn himself may also well die for refusing the command of the king. His job as the King's Justice is to carry out the King's Justice. His approval, and whether it meets his moral standards, is irrelevant. In this context, claiming that Illyn is more liable for the death of Eddard than Joffrey is like claiming the sword is more liable for the death of Eddard than Joffrey, I think. I don't think there's anything wrong with analysing characters through modern moral and legal perspectives, as long as you accept that there's no way for them to reasonably act within those contraints because they don't exist for them. As you say, it would be silly to critisise, for example, Eddard for not allowing Gared legal representation. So while I think you can use it for analysis, I agree that you can't really base your criticisms off it. Yes to the second point. *A lot* of the fandom seems to judge characters they like by in-universe standards, and characters they dislike by the standards of comfortable modern democracies. People like Tywin, Ramsay, LF, Walder Frey, Cersei, Roose Bolton, Ser Gregor, Ser Amory, Theon, Euron, perhaps Tyrion and Jaime, can be condemned by in-universe standards. The latter two are more grey, with most of the remaining protagonists lighter grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, SeanF said: *A lot* of the fandom seems to judge characters they like by in-universe standards, and characters they dislike by the standards of comfortable modern democracies. Yes, people really need to stay consistent. You can't really go 'What x did was fine because that's just how things are in their world.' but then also say 'What y did was awful. It doesn't matter that it's acceptable in-universe.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 53 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Yes, people really need to stay consistent. You can't really go 'What x did was fine because that's just how things are in their world.' but then also say 'What y did was awful. It doesn't matter that it's acceptable in-universe.' I do think that the killing of Mycah was a common murder, even by this world’s standards. The rule is that a person who strikes a Prince loses the offending hand, not their life. Sandor is most to blame, but Cersei and Robert are, too. The former for approving the act, the latter for just shrugging it off. I don’t like Sansa, for most of Book 1, but she’s not to blame in any way, for Mycah’s death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 1 hour ago, SeanF said: I do think that the killing of Mycah was a common murder, even by this world’s standards. The rule is that a person who strikes a Prince loses the offending hand, not their life. Sandor is most to blame, but Cersei and Robert are, too. The former for approving the act, the latter for just shrugging it off. Out of universe I agree but in universe I think it depends whether Cersei has the authority to just have people killed like that. If she doesn't then the Hound is guilty of murder and Cersei is also guilty of murder. 1 hour ago, SeanF said: I don’t like Sansa, for most of Book 1, but she’s not to blame in any way, for Mycah’s death. There is no causal connection between Sansa's actions and Micah's death. I think some people are letting their dislike of the character cloud their judgement and logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said: Out of universe I agree but in universe I think it depends whether Cersei has the authority to just have people killed like that. If she doesn't then the Hound is guilty of murder and Cersei is also guilty of murder. There is no causal connection between Sansa's actions and Micah's death. I think some people are letting their dislike of the character cloud their judgement and logic. My feeling is that while a king or queen or high lord can get away with killing anyone they dislike, it would still be a crime, strictly speaking, to kill people on frivolous grounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springwatch Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 On 11/11/2022 at 2:29 PM, Quoth the raven, said: It's Arya's new religion who are big on the gift of mercy killings. Not really. They don't kill randomly, but mercy isn't a factor. On 11/11/2022 at 2:29 PM, Quoth the raven, said: Sansa bears partial guilt for the child's death. Not at all. Sandor was searching north of the Trident. Darry castle is (irrc) half a day's journey south of the Trident. So Sandor has spent at least half a day travelling south with Mycah's dead body - the death happened far away and long before Arya was brought in. Nothing Sansa could do about it. (As if she could anyway!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Green Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 Sandor killed Mycah. He confessed. And he begged for mercy. And mercy was refused. And Sandor died. And was (maybe) reborn. That's the arc so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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