UK Politics: rooting for the vegetables

[Week]

10 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Hussey moved Falani’s hair to read the name badge!

Classic part of small talk and making someone feel welcome. Clearly, the repeated and demanding questioning was a complete misunderstanding where we have to assume the best of intentions and memory-hole all historical incidents of racism with the royal family.

Unfortunately, her choice of clothing excuses this obnoxiousness. She should have been thoughtful about what she was wearing. /S

-- I think that last line is a Tory motto (yikes).

[Heartofice]

1 hour ago, Which Tyler said:

FTR, my name is Irish, it would be perfectly reasonable for someone who saw my name tag to say something like "Is that an Irish name? Does you family come from there?" But that's absolutely not what's meant by "But where are you from?"

I would say if you have an Irish name then it's pretty obvious where you are from. 

I grew up in West London and as I mentioned before that it was almost the first question that anyone ever asked, because almost nobody was white english, they were from all over the planet. It was a point of pride. I personally got asked it all the time because it's not clear from looking at me. It was a very much accepted question. I'm assuming Tewkesbury is pretty much entirely white?

And again, what was the context of this conversation? Hussey comes over, notices the way Fulani is dressed (Fulani who has changed her name to make it more African, and dressed to express her African heritage btw), makes a point of looking at her name and her very next action is to ask where she is from. 

The way she worded it is very poor, and not well thought out, but you can understand her intention if you bother to think about it for 5 seconds. 
 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Heartofice

[Denvek]

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

I would say if you have an Irish name then it's pretty obvious where you are from. 

Really? Because I have an Irish name and I'm not from Ireland.

The racism isn't the initial question of "Where are you from?". The racism is the repeated asking of that question and the "Where are you really from?", which comes with the implication that someone who looks like Fulani can't possibly really be from London.

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

The way she worded it is very poor, and not well thought out, but you can understand her intention if you bother to think about it for 5 seconds. 

But someone whose job includes a large amount of what one could call "customer-facing" duties would be expected to know how to frame the intended question in a way that doesn't sound racist, no matter how old they are.

[Week]

1 minute ago, Denvek said:

But someone whose job includes a large amount of what one could call "customer-facing" duties would be expected to know how to frame the intended question in a way that doesn't sound racist, no matter how old they are.

Agree with this along with the fact that the demanding line of questioning is simply obnoxious. You have every right to simply not what to small talk and/or share personal information. Demanding a response is absurd, particularly in that capacity.

[Heartofice]

6 minutes ago, Denvek said:

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

 

Really? Because I have an Irish name and I'm not from Ireland.

The racism isn't the initial question of "Where are you from?". The racism is the repeated asking of that question and the "Where are you really from?", which comes with the implication that someone who looks like Fulani can't possibly really be from London.

Yes and I’m sure nobody bothers to ask you about it because the answer is obvious. 
 

Anyway, as I’ve said, she has worded it poorly, her communication is poor and doesn’t chime with how other people speak. She should be better but it’s not unusual for these differences in communication to occur, and that’s really all I see it as, a communication issue.

If you read the transcript, even at the very end after repeatedly being given swerving answers to her question her response is ‘oh so you are from..’ 

This suggests she had a very specific meaning behind the phrase: asking about someone’s heritage, and finally she got her answer. It seems she couldn’t understand why she wasnt getting the answer to the question she was asking.

[Week]

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

The way she worded it is very poor, and not well thought out, but you can understand her intention if you bother to think about it for 5 seconds. 
 

 

4 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

This suggests she had a very specific meaning behind the phrase: asking about someone’s heritage, and finally she got her answer. It seems she couldn’t understand why she wasnt getting the answer to the question she was asking.

Apparently 5 seconds is not enough time for all of us to suss this one out.

[Raja]

9 hours ago, dog-days said:

 I think your interpretation of the conversation is excessively naïve.

Dog-days had it right here. It's all gaslighting.

[DaveSumm]

14 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

If you read the transcript

I was going to say the part where she says “oh I can see I’m going to have trouble getting you to tell me where you’re from” sounds awful, but as far as I can tell the transcript is just Fulani’s memory of the incident? So I won’t nitpick every word.

[A wilding]

I think that the transcript comes via a (horrified) bystander, rather than directly from Fulani herself?

[Liffguard]

3 hours ago, Heartofice said:

And again, what was the context of this conversation? Hussey comes over, notices the way Fulani is dressed (Fulani who has changed her name to make it more African, and dressed to express her African heritage btw), makes a point of looking at her name and her very next action is to ask where she is from. 

The way she worded it is very poor, and not well thought out, but you can understand her intention if you bother to think about it for 5 seconds. 

This might be true if she asked it once, then dropped it, but she didn't. She asked the question, got an answer, decided she didn't like the answer, tried to push, got the same answer several times, never once just accepted the answer she was given, and continued to conduct an interrogation. Like, even a sheltered up-her-arse aristocrat can be expected to have enough social grace to know when to accept the answer she was given and back off, if the line of questioning was actually innocent.

[Which Tyler]

3 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I would say if you have an Irish name then it's pretty obvious where you are from.

Wait, you can tell that I'm from Wiltshire because I've an Irish name?

Damn that's impressive, to the point that you'd be the first in 46 years to do so.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Which Tyler

[DaveSumm]

23 minutes ago, A wilding said:

I think that the transcript comes via a (horrified) bystander, rather than directly from Fulani herself?

BBC story says “Here is the full conversation, as recounted by Ms Fulani:” before it, unless there’s a different version.

[Heartofice]

1 minute ago, Which Tyler said:

Wait, you can tell that I'm from Wiltshire because I've an Irish name?

Damn that's impressive.

See how easy it is to be deliberately obstructive. Well illustrated meta answer.

[Which Tyler]

2 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

See how easy it is to be deliberately obstructive. Well illustrated meta answer.

Well, I'm confused.

Can you, or can you not tell that I'm from Wiltshire as a result of my Irish name?

 

Or did you means something else when you said that it was pretty obvious where I was from, because of my name?

Edited December 2, 2022 by Which Tyler

[Heartofice]

Language is confusing isn’t it. 
 

Depends are you also wearing the traditional garb of Wiltshire?

[Which Tyler]

Bath rugby shirt, a barbour and a pair of hunters?
Yep, reasonably regularly.

I still have no clue what you're getting at here, other than that you can tell I'm from Wiltshire because I've an Irish name - which doesn't have much to do with my clothing (or that my Location here is set as "UK - West Country"

Edited December 2, 2022 by Which Tyler

[A wilding]

13 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

BBC story says “Here is the full conversation, as recounted by Ms Fulani:” before it, unless there’s a different version.

I was just checking and you are right. The bystander, one Mandu Reid, merely agreed that the transcript matched her recollection, and it had been racist and offensive. She was also quoted to this effect by the BBC.

Edit and an interesting take from Mandu Reid here: basically she did not want Lady Hussey to resign, she would prefer some institutional change, rather than just sacrificing a scapegoat who was only a symptom of the problem.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/01/lady-hussey-resign-monarchy-race-remarks-institution

Edited December 2, 2022 by A wilding

[Heartofice]

20 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

Well, I'm confused.

Can you, or can you not tell that I'm from Wiltshire as a result of my Irish name?

 

Or did you means something else when you said that it was pretty obvious where I was from, because of my name?

So you are saying there is an misunderstanding when I was referring to your heritage rather than your physical location?? Wow, it happens so easily doesn’t it 

[Which Tyler]

You referred to my heritage?

When was that?

What assumptions are you making about my heritage?

 

Or are you just doubling down on your gaslighting that in the phrase "where do you come from" the word "you" means "people who aren't you" - even though it's complete bullshit, and you know it?

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Aidan you said? From the Wiltshire Aidan's by any chance? 

Sorry, couldn't resist.