How Canon is House of the Dragon?

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

I understand that it’s based off the Fire and Blood book, but as the book is written by unreliable narrators the show’s liberties that it takes really seem to flesh out the characters more. And the fact that GRRM is involved seems to indicate to me that he wants this to be viewed as how the Dance went down. But am I wrong?

[Ran]

Ryan Condal and George both have explained that it is the objective version of events within the canon of HBO's TV shows. That is it. Nothing in it should be construed to be relevant to the book canon, controlled solely by George, unless it is explicitly said by George (or by someone with knowledge of George's thoughts) that it is the case that the books and the show are aligned.

So, just to take an example: Aegon's prophecy. We know from Ryan and also from George that yes, Aegon had a prophetic dream that forsaw a danger to the world and that this motivated his conquest. So that is relevant book canon. But the degree to which they have made it central to the story and to the Targaryen kingship is, until we are told otherwise, an invention or an expansion made for the show canon.

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

They also added things into the story like Rhaenyra actually caring about the small folk, and The whole battle between Aemond and Lucerys essentially being a bad prank gone wrong

[Aline de Gavrillac]

It is inspired by the source material.  How faithful it is to the source will be determined by commercial interests.  Violence, sex, and such will be taken to a higher level. 

Spoiler

 I do like Aegon's dream on the show, what Viserys said on his deathbed, and would like for the story to take that direction.  

 

[chrisdaw]

It's not.

On the other hand, one might infer there's no way Condal or any other writer decided on their own accord without more information than us that what's needed at end of the series after his child dies in birth is a scene where Daemon sings to a dragon about paying a price in blood magic and binding dragons and three heads flying together and have his eye turn into the dragon's eye.

[Ran]

One might, but one shouldn't.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

As canon as GOT.

[Kierria]

7 hours ago, Ran said:

One might, but one shouldn't.

It makes sound commercial sense to keep the two separate.  Two stories to keep as many fans engaged for as long it can.  It takes a long time to read and the books are pricey.  Most casual fans will not purchase the book if they already know what will happen. 

[Corvo the Crow]

.

[Ran]

Bartimos Celtigar appeared in a couple of scenes in the last episode. He's English

[Corvo the Crow]

.

[Ring3r]

I think it's probably about as canon as the other accounts from the Fire and Blood book.

[Bowen Marsh]

Difficult to say because HBO execs have a lot of leverage.  Martin doesn't have a free hand. Some of the choices were taken away by the choices D&D made in the last series. 

Just look at the awkward choices for the Velaryons.  The story had to make a lot of accommodations to the political and social mood in the US and Western Europe.  

[Daenerysthegreat]

22 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Ahh too bad. A great oppurtunity of SJWokery has been missed there! In all seriousness though, this isn't just a simple matter of black/white/whatever. I couldn't care less if say, batman becomes Hispanic or superman is Asian, but in a fantasy setting these kind of things become rather important with established "races" and just going with "ok, I won't use a black actor for this not-black-in-the-source character" isn't enough either, this goes especially for ASOIAF where houses having different long preserved characteristics. Emilia Clarke is English too and I didn't find her a very good portrayal(her acting was good though, at least in the first seasons) of Danaerys and I'm not just talking about her eye color or the eyebrows that came straight out of house of the undyed, she just wasn't a good Valyrian look alike, I think Tamzin Merchant would've been much better. While at it, "I'll just portray this black character with a random Afro-American actor" or "Asian is Asian, Korean character can be portrayed by Japanes or Chinese or whatever" is a quite wrong (and also degrading) approach as well, just as portraying any "white" character with any random white person. If given thought into it, I think it would be especially degrading in the case of a black character in the case of an African black since Africa is the most genetically diverse continent. 

If you ask me, it doesn’t make a difference if the Velaryons are played by black actors, white actors or blue actors, they should add well enough. To reconcile canon I have this theory. When a person spends time in the sun, that persons skin becomes tanned. In the novel Kim, Kim is a white but whose skin is turned dark by the sun. The same theory can apply to the velaryons(they spend a LOT of time in the sun with those ships) . The easier explanation is that Corlys’s grandmother or mother was from the summer Islands.

 

21 minutes ago, Bowen Marsh said:

Just look at the awkward choices for the Velaryons.  The story had to make a lot of accommodations to the political and social mood in the US and Western Europe.  

What accommodations?

as for whether hotd is canon or not I have three canons in my mind.

1)Hotd happened, as did the events as they happened in the books.

2) Hotd happened and is in the same universe as the show.

3) Hotd is a separate universe of its own

 

[Ran]

14 minutes ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

The easier explanation is that Corlys’s grandmother or mother was from the summer Islands.

Many thought they were going that way, but Ryan Condal has made it plain that there were black Valyrian noble families before the Doom. So, no super-tanning nor Summer Isles blood involved, the Valyrian race  (the term Condal uses) is both white and black.

I personally don't find this terribly coherent and it raises a lot of questions in my head, but the answers to those questions aren't germane to the HotD story and will perhaps be solved only if HotD turns to the past or perhaps the future of the Targaryen family after it wraps up the Dance.

[Ingelheim]

The only thing that is a 100% canon is the meaning and purpose of The Song of Ice and Fire, which George admited to be true. Aegon's dream is real, and it's probably the main reason why he was driven to conquest Westeros.

 

[Daenerysthegreat]

10 hours ago, Ran said:

but Ryan Condal has made it plain that there were black Valyrian noble families before the Doom. So, no super-tanning nor Summer Isles blood involved, the Valyrian race  (the term Condal uses) is both white and black.

Well when you think of it it’s actually better than the summer islands theory, explains why the Velaryons didn’t face racism. The showrunner actually seem capable this time.

[Tyrosh Lannister]

It is 'show canon' not book canon

[Tyrosh Lannister]

12 hours ago, Bowen Marsh said:

Difficult to say because HBO execs have a lot of leverage.  Martin doesn't have a free hand. Some of the choices were taken away by the choices D&D made in the last series. 

Just look at the awkward choices for the Velaryons.  The story had to make a lot of accommodations to the political and social mood in the US and Western Europe.  

Why did Martin allow this to happen in the first place? Not just the Velaryons but other things as well (for example the violent wedding)

[Ran]

23 minutes ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

Why did Martin allow this to happen in the first place? Not just the Velaryons but other things as well (for example the violent wedding)

Because he has no creative control. He consults and advises, and Ryan has committed to talk over everything he does with him and keep him 100% in the loop, but at the end of the day Ryan's job is to make a TV show for HBO and its audience, not to make a TV show for George and people who've been reading the books for years. He's committed to trying to do his best by George and the fans, though, as he himself is a long-time fan who's been reading the books for 20 years.

George said that having creative control over projects as a creator is basically impossible. Studios would rather send you an extra truck full of money than part with creative control. George has made the calculation that he'd rather see shows on TV where he is a consultant and has a good relationship with the producers is more important than not having shows on TV because he wants complete control. 

It's a choice he's made, and I think as fans of the books and texts it's up to the individual if you like that choice or not, just as it's up to individuals if they like aspects of the show or not. We're all individuals, man.