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Sansa is slowly killing Sweetrobin


Kierria
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18 minutes ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

Nowhere, just as usual.

To save us the hassle, people should have a disclaimer at the beginning of every post that reads something like this: The following conclusions are based on no textual evidence whatsoever.

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Neither Littlefinger or Sansa, are trying to kill Sweetrobin. Littlefinger is Lord Protector because of Robert. He just has written him off as a future asset, so he is drugging him to keep up appearances with complete disregard about his long term health. As a method for murder it is hardly untraceable, unless he plans to kill the maester, too.

Sansa is, however, in denial. Maester Colemon has been quite clear about the eventual outcome of giving him sweetsleep. 

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14 hours ago, Son of Man said:

I think Sansa will be manipulated to murder Robyn Arryn.  Hardyng will promise to give her something she wants.  She will kill the child and then he will betray her.  

What does Sansa want that Harry the heir could possibly give her? The North? She has a better path to that through Sweetrobin, or if we're being honest, she could just plain reveal her identity to the Vale. Marriage? Maybe, but we know she doesn't think much of Hardyng, and there's the problem of the marriage to Tyrion. Sansa is more likely to kill Sweetrobin unintentionally by overdosing him on sweetsleep than diliberately commiting coldblooded murder. Nothing in her pov chapters has ever indicated a desire to commit murder of the sort you are implying. If Sweetrobin does die, and I doubt he will, it'll have much more to do with Littlefinger, it will further traumatize Sansa, and would likely begin whatever progression of events leading to Sansa breaking away from Littlefinger. I doubt Harry has the intelligence or the courage required to make an ask of Sansa that requires her to murder Sweetrobin.

Edited by Nathan Stark
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2 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

What does Sansa want that Harry the heir could possibly give her?

She's being paired with Harry because of what LF wants; the Vail, Winterfell and Sansa herself.  Sansa wants someone who wants her for herself and not her claim, and that's not Harry and especially not LF.  But does Alayne want what Sansa wants? Currently, Alayne is 'bastard brave' and having fun being a flirt and not always a proper lady.  I don't see Sansa killing SR and hopefully, Alayne feels the same.

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On 10/29/2022 at 10:41 AM, Kierria said:

Sweetrobin is slowly being poisoned.  It is not yet a crime of murder because the child is still alive but Sansa is part of the insidious plot to murder the child and take all that is his.  Will Sansa go through with the murder?  The odds are close to even but does lean lightly to Sansa doing the crime. 

Look back on Sansa's past and tell me what you think.  Tell me what you think will happen. 

Sansa is not smart enough to set up a plot on her own but she will take that kid's life if she thinks it will benefit herself.  

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4 hours ago, LongRider said:

She's being paired with Harry because of what LF wants; the Vail, Winterfell and Sansa herself.  Sansa wants someone who wants her for herself and not her claim, and that's not Harry and especially not LF.  But does Alayne want what Sansa wants? Currently, Alayne is 'bastard brave' and having fun being a flirt and not always a proper lady.  I don't see Sansa killing SR and hopefully, Alayne feels the same.

There's not really a difference between Sansa and Alayne. Sansa is many things, but she doesn't have multiple personality disorder.

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58 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

There's not really a difference between Sansa and Alayne. Sansa is many things, but she doesn't have multiple personality disorder.

The difference is Alayne is suppressing Sansa.  Sansa always remembers her manners, Alayne is bastard brave.  Sansa is courteous and Alayne is flirty.  It's not a multiple personality, it is suppression of the Sansa persona at LF's bidding and she is wanted for regicide as is her husband.  Alayne is exploring the world in a way Sansa never would. How far will Alayne go?  With many coming to the Vale for the tourney, how many will realize who Alayne is?  Who she really is?  

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10 hours ago, LongRider said:

The difference is Alayne is suppressing Sansa.  Sansa always remembers her manners, Alayne is bastard brave.  Sansa is courteous and Alayne is flirty.  It's not a multiple personality, it is suppression of the Sansa persona at LF's bidding and she is wanted for regicide as is her husband.  Alayne is exploring the world in a way Sansa never would. How far will Alayne go?  With many coming to the Vale for the tourney, how many will realize who Alayne is?  Who she really is?  

Not really. Sansa in the Vale is behaving more or less like she was in early Game chapters. Think of how she dealt with Renly and Barristan. That is her baseline personality when she is feeling secure. It is not a behavior of bastard but of the lady of the house. Compare Maya Stone and Jon. They are much more reserved and defensive. 

She was subdued in King's Landing due to grief, danger and awkward social position. 

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On 10/29/2022 at 10:41 AM, Kierria said:

Sweetrobin is slowly being poisoned.  It is not yet a crime of murder because the child is still alive but Sansa is part of the insidious plot to murder the child and take all that is his.  Will Sansa go through with the murder?  The odds are close to even but does lean lightly to Sansa doing the crime. 

Look back on Sansa's past and tell me what you think.  Tell me what you think will happen. 

I do think SR is being poisoned but I don't think it can be laid at Sansa's feet. She only administers medicine the maesters prepare for him. 

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17 hours ago, Rondo said:

Sansa is not smart enough to set up a plot on her own but she will take that kid's life if she thinks it will benefit herself.  

:bs:  Sansa is plenty smart, she was just innocent prior to her entanglement with the Lannisters. What evidence is there that she will take a child's life to benefit herself? She has never done anything of the sort. Besides, it's Petyr that is setting this whole thing in motion. If SR dies by anothers hand it will be Petyr that is to blame, not because Sansa isn't smart enough to plot a murder, but because she is good enough that kinslaying for the purpose of her own political gain would be appaling to her. 

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I think part of the disagreement here lies in the fact that Sansa is currently at a tipping point for her character.

So far she has done some things and acted in ways that did not reflect well on her, both in refusing to tell the truth about the fight on the Trident (resulting in Mycah’s death) and showing no remourse, and she betrayed her father when she ran to Cersei. However, she has had her youth and innocence as potential excuses.

The situation with Robert Arryn, her cousin, and if she defends him or participates in the plot to see him die and usurp his seat, appears to be a tipping point for the morality of her character.

Part of me hopes to see Sansa redeem herself, but honestly I’m not overly optimistic.

Part of me expects her to agree to be a part of seeing Robert Arryn dead, only for the plot to be interrupted, and I would speculate this interruption will be caused by an attack by the Clans led by Timett, Robert’s true heir, who could also identify Sansa.

But, at this point it really seems like it could go either way to me.

Edited by Mourning Star
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28 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

So far she has done some things and acted in ways that did not reflect well on her, both in refusing to tell the truth about the fight on the Trident (resulting in Mycah’s death)

Oh for heaven's sake

Quote

and she betrayed her father when she ran to Cersei

and again.

There is simply not time enough in life to keep answering these.

Edited by Springwatch
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49 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

So far she has done some things and acted in ways that did not reflect well on her, both in refusing to tell the truth about the fight on the Trident (resulting in Mycah’s death)

I don't think Sansa not telling the truth had anything to do with Mycah's death. The Hound was already out looking for him. Even if Sansa told everyone what really happened, it likely couldn't have saved Mycah, because either Mycah had already been killed by that point or the Hound was about to get the job done, and they wouldn't have time to send a message to him/order him to stop, and given that he was likely acting on Cersei/Joffrey's orders and not royal orders to kill Mycah, I doubt anything would be changed.

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43 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I don't think Sansa not telling the truth had anything to do with Mycah's death. 

They hunted Micah for days, and Arya too, Sansa’s own sister, while Sansa wasn’t telling the truth… for days! People sometimes act like it was something that happened quickly or in confusion, but there was a lot of time for her to feel bad, tell the truth, or join the search. You can try and downplay it or excuse it, but it’s still there.

At the end of the day it’s a character, and I feel like some people take opinions about characters like this a little to personally.

41 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I also think that you need to have intent to betray someone, or at least reach a very high degree of recklessness, both of which I don't think apply to Sansa.

I mean… she runs to Cersei to tell her Ned’s plan because she wants to be queen… she’s young and foolish and shortsighted, they help us understand the character, but they amount to excuses. It’s easy to understand why she behaved the way she did, and just as easy to see why it was morally wrong. 

It seems pretty clear that Lady’s death was symbolically (and kind of literally) due to her betrayal of her family.

If she is complicit in the murder of Robert Arryn, either willingly or obliviously, I think she’ll be beyond redemption. But as I said above, part of me hopes she can redeem herself.

Edited by Mourning Star
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