The Witcher S3: Bye Bye Henry

[Werthead]

59 minutes ago, Ran said:

Looking further, I see Javier Grillo-Marxuach explicitly said the rumors are "false" that there are writers openly disliking the books... citing being in the writer's room for all of season 3. Which is an important point! Because as it happens, he wasn't part of season 1 and season 2, while Beau De Mayo was. Looking over the credits, there are three writers besides De Mayo who did not go on to write on season 3 (in De Mayo's case, because he became show runner of X-Men '97), which makes me think one or more of those writers were the people he was talking about.

Grillo-Marxuach knows his shit. His mega-long article on the writing of Lost Seasons 1 and 2 is superb, and he's a solid writer in his own right.

I don't know why Hollywood is adverse to tapping the earlier generations of writers who are still very much around. It bemuses me that none of the new Star Trek shows have brought in the TNG, DS9 and Voyager writers who are still around, which is quite a lot because those shows had very young writing staffs for their time.

[JGP]

That's the thing. You'd think if you'd acquired a franchise you did so for the base built in. As initial investment, anyway.

The showrunner should have a deep understanding and respect for the source material, or what is the point of any of it... I don't know. Adaptation itself is an art, the showrunner runs the writer's room and people are going to people. The producers and ex producers would also have significant input on the story, but the hope would be not so much story wise. Faint hope there too, probably.   

If the writers situation that Wert mentions is that bad? That's a whole other mess.

Yikes.  

How can the writers situation be that bad?  

[Ran]

16 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Grillo-Marxuach knows his shit. His mega-long article on the writing of Lost Seasons 1 and 2 is superb, and he's a solid writer in his own right.

Yeah, he's no genre newbie. 

11 minutes ago, JGP said:

The showrunner should have a deep understanding and respect for the source material, or what is the point of any of it...

Tony Gilroy does not have a deep understanding of Star Wars lore, and he has no reverence or particular fealty to Star Wars, he's been explicit about that. He doesn't hate it, but he doesn't love Star Wars for the sake of loving Star Wars. But I will say that he respects the source material, because he doesn't take his personal indifference to the lore as license to try and change stuff or throw things out the window just because that's how he'd like it to be. And he hasn't gotten in the way of the set dressers and design teams who are genuine, dyed-in-the-wool fans from finding places to stick easter eggs and references.

So, I think respecting the source material is certainly a requirement, but I'm not sure a showrunner absolutely needs to be a lore-expert. 

Now, Hissrich of The Witcher has said the books are her livelihood and she has studied them thoroughly and she respects Sapkowski and the books. De Mayo's statement wasn't necessarily about her. 

[JGP]

10 minutes ago, Ran said:

Yeah, he's no genre newbie. 

Tony Gilroy does not have a deep understanding of Star Wars lore, and he has no reverence or particular fealty to Star Wars, he's been explicit about that. He doesn't hate it, but he doesn't love Star Wars for the sake of loving Star Wars. But I will say that he respects the source material, because he doesn't take his personal indifference to the lore as license to try and change stuff or throw things out the window just because that's how he'd like it to be. And he hasn't gotten in the way of the set dressers and design teams who are genuine, dyed-in-the-wool fans from finding places to stick easter eggs and references.

So, I think respecting the source material is certainly a requirement, but I'm not sure a showrunner absolutely needs to be a lore-expert. 

Oh, I'm not downplaying any of that. Chose a bad place to jump in.

Was speaking in general. 

Loved Andor, myself, looking forward to watching it branch out.   

 

[karaddin]

6 hours ago, Ran said:

But per Beau De Mayo, "some" of the writers "actively disliked" the books and "openly mock[ed]" the source material. Which he felt was bad for morale for those who were working on it and liked what they were doing. 

There's also a possibility that there's simply crossed wires - that they do like/love the books but do so with eyes open to it's flaws and find some of those flaws funny. I could easily see a situation where I was laughing at some of the issues in WoT and someone took that as me disliking them. Especially if De Mayo doesn't vibe well with the person and may completely misread tone/not like their sense of humour. It doesn't require bad faith on anyone's part.

Or it could be writers that are no longer with the show because it's true as stated for a couple of writers.

[Derfel Cadarn]

15 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

Is there something wrong with the Striga episode adaptation wise?

Not at all, she was complimenting hiw work. The Eskel mention was interesting given a lot of purists complained about that death

[Ran]

4 hours ago, karaddin said:

There's also a possibility that there's simply crossed wires

If he knew them for a week, maybe. But he was in the writer's room for two years.  That's a lot of opportunities to uncross those wires.

[karaddin]

5 hours ago, Ran said:

If he knew them for a week, maybe. But he was in the writer's room for two years.  That's a lot of opportunities to uncross those wires.

I've worked with some people for more like 10 years and would believe it if someone told me I had wires crossed like this when I already didn't like them lol

[Ran]

19 minutes ago, karaddin said:

I've worked with some people for more like 10 years and would believe it if someone told me I had wires crossed like this when I already didn't like them lol

I can well imagine in a context where it's something unrelated to or only slightly related to your work discussed during personal time or whatever, but we're talking about their sole task working together being about writing material and characters in this world and adapting this source material. Very tough for me to imagine the scenario where one keeps talking about this material as part of their professional responsibilities, day in and day out, week after week, and somehow manage to leave their counterparts with anything other than a correct impression of one's like or dislike of the stuff.

[Werthead]

18 hours ago, Ran said:

Tony Gilroy does not have a deep understanding of Star Wars lore, and he has no reverence or particular fealty to Star Wars, he's been explicit about that. He doesn't hate it, but he doesn't love Star Wars for the sake of loving Star Wars. But I will say that he respects the source material, because he doesn't take his personal indifference to the lore as license to try and change stuff or throw things out the window just because that's how he'd like it to be. And he hasn't gotten in the way of the set dressers and design teams who are genuine, dyed-in-the-wool fans from finding places to stick easter eggs and references.

Bothe Harve Bennett and Nicholas Meyer were complete Star Trek novices when they took over the franchise in 1981 and produced the best Star Trek movie of all time, and the instalment that seemed to convince everyone the franchise had long-term legs.

Again, they respected it and Bennett made a point of watching all 79 OG episodes (and had to get Paramount to do that specially for him, since the show was not available on home release at the time) to get into the franchise headspace.

So bringing in fresh blood can be really helpful and having raging fanboys in place can also cause problems (like Zack Snyder on Watchmen), but obviously the reverse can be problematic as well.

[mormont]

The problem with Snyder on Watchmen was not that he was a fan of the source material, but that he did not understand it.

[Zorral]

‘The Witcher: Blood Origin’ Is TV’s Latest Big Fantasy Prequel
The mini-series takes place 1,200 years before the events of “The Witcher,” which has been one of Netflix’s most-watched shows since its debut in 2019

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/22/arts/television/the-witcher-blood-origin-netflix.html

Quote

 

.... A spinoff was probably inevitable for a title that has conquered every platform it has encountered: The streaming adaptation of “The Witcher” followed popular game and comic book versions, and it has become one of Netflix’s most-watched shows ever.

For the creator and showrunner of “Blood Origin,” Declan de Barra, the initial motivation was the opportunity to expand on clues or allusions in Sapkowski’s books, including by introducing new characters. Foremost was a desire to focus on the Continent when it was dominated by elves.

“My favorite part of the books was identifying with the elvish story,” de Barra, 51, said in a video conversation. “You could see that they were a post-colonized sort of species, they could barely reproduce and they’re pre-agrarian, but yet they have this mythology that’s sort of hinted out in the background. What happened before? What was their Rome before the fall?”

As a writer and co-executive producer for “The Witcher,” de Barra had begun mapping out what he thought happened before the Conjunction of the Spheres — the cataclysm that allowed both humans and monsters to travel from their own worlds to the Continent. So when the original series’ creator, Lauren Schmidt Hissrich, asked him to draw up a spinoff concept, de Barra was ready. For his story engine, he picked one of the oldest and most tested: A group of mismatched individuals must team up to save their world, in this case from rampaging overlords and one demented wizard.

“I just imagined a group of people who would hate each other if they turn up at a party, and put them in the crucible together,” he said. “People who are all different and have reason to have beef with each other but have to work together.”

This being the “Witcher” franchise, some of them also find reasons to have sex with one another. And yes, there is just as much jarringly modern profanity in “Blood Origin” as in the main show, along with the goofy irreverence that sets the franchise apart. (Last year’s special, “The Witcher: Fireplace,” is an hourlong shot of a crackling fire.)

“What’s great about Declan is that he’s very energetic and he has a very raucous, naughty sense of humor — and he brings that to ‘Blood Origin,’” Lenny Henry, who plays the plotting Chief Sage Balor, said in a video chat. “So you get all the heightened Shakespearean arias from some of the characters and then you get that low side.”

Balor plays a crucial role in the “Blood Origin” universe, setting in motion a series of events that will ripple through time and space. Among the characters most affected are Éile (Sophia Brown) and Fjall (Laurence O’Fuarain), two warriors from rival clans who end up fighting on the same side as part of the main superteam. (How super? The mighty Michelle Yeoh is a key part of it.)

In a way, Éile is “The Witcher” in a nutshell: a fierce fighter who both comments on and drives the action with song — this is, after all, the rare fantasy series that has spawned a cult hit, with “Toss a Coin to Your Witcher” from Season 1. This is an essential element for the Ireland-born de Barra, who used to front a hard-rocking band and who is the co-writer of several numbers for both streaming “Witcher” properties.

“My favorite songs are ones that end really short,” he said by way of explaining the decision to cut the prequel down from its planned
 six episodes to four. He also draws connections between epic Celtic ballads and Éile’s tunes, including “The Black Rose” — a direct reference to the 16th-century Irish song “Róisín Dubh.”

“I wanted her to be writing rebel songs for the people,” de Barra said. “I knew there would be nods to Irish mythology as well as Eastern European mythology, because Sapkowski does that himself with some of his places and people, like Skellige Islands and stuff like that.

“He has a potpourri of all sort of European mythology and he pulls the stories and puts them together and bakes his own cake,” de Barra added. “So I felt very comfortable doing that.”

Offscreen, Brown, who is Black, has been at the center of the kinds of caustic discussions, regarding race and how it relates to source material, that have occurred within other fantasy fandoms. (You might recall how the sight of Black elves in “The Rings of Power” threw some viewers into a tizzy.)

“If something new is coming into a space, people are always going to think ‘Oh, that’s not right,’” Brown said. “I got some difficulty when the casting came out, but I’m not new to the industry, and I’ve worked very hard to be here, so it didn’t waver my knowing I was meant to be there.”

Henry — who is also Black and who played the harfoot Sadoc Burrows in “The Rings of Power” — chose to laugh at it all. “What you have to say to those guys is, ‘You will believe an Upside Down where there’s a big weird creature made out of corned beef threatening children, but you won’t believe a Black elf?’” he said. “It’s all pretend — anybody can be what they want to be.” ....

 

 

[Darryk]

On 12/21/2022 at 1:01 AM, Ran said:

Now, Hissrich of The Witcher has said the books are her livelihood and she has studied them thoroughly and she respects Sapkowski and the books. De Mayo's statement wasn't necessarily about her. 

Who was the director who wanted to make a joke out of Roach's death and Henry Cavill refused to do it. Cause that person is clueless about the source material.

[Zorral]

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/dec/25/netflix-the-witcher-blood-origin-review-this-profanity-packed-fantasy-is-a-riot

Quote

 

.... For this prequel to The Witcher, we go back, back, back to 1,200 years before the time of Geralt of Rivia – and if you don’t know who that is, it matters not. Slide right into the self-contained story of a continent where elves, dwarves and other often-warring peoples are living in uneasy proximity, until the arrival of one vicious dictatorship to rule them all makes everyone even less relaxed. Out in the sticks, soldier turned travelling bard Éile (Sophia Brown) is already fomenting revolutionary solidarity by singing rousing folk songs in pubs – and, in her introductory scene, taking care of drunk punters who get aggressively handsy with a waitress, by stabbing them in the legs and smashing their faces on tables, before continuing to play her bowed zither thingy and sing about people power. We like her immediately.

Before long, Éile is assembling a diverse gang of outcasts, loners and cleaver-swinging mercenaries, former enemies united now against a bigger common foe, for an assault on the palace. Within the walls of the capital, meanwhile, a young princess called Merwyn (Mirren Mack) is undergoing an awkward coming of age. She feels she is bound for greatness, but to realise her destiny she will have to navigate a court full of men bent on assuming absolute power and wielding it nefariously. What will she need to do to survive, and will she make anything better if she does?

Blood Origin is strong on the personal mechanics of autocracy, with Lenny Henry leading that side of the drama as Balor, a scheming druid whose advocacy of a let-them-starve austerity government hides a deep-seated personal inadequacy. It’s always satisfying when fictional wrong ’uns are crying inside, and the show’s take on the concept of benevolent dictatorship is nicely dismissive: some of Balor’s colleagues seem less evil but are shown to be moving in the same direction and thus given no sympathy. In 2022, we could do without one of the proto-fascists having the weakness that he is secretly gay, but this misguided subplot is mercifully brief. ....

 

 

[Mexal]

I've watched an episode and half so far and have thoroughly enjoyed it. I wouldn't consider it great by any stretch but it's well made and entertaining. That's pretty much all I care about at this point.

[mormont]

I've watched all four episodes and... I wanted to like it. It has some good moments. But overall, it's bad. I would genuinely not recommend.

[Derfel Cadarn]

Watched half of episode 1. The elves don’t seem very elvish. Basically just humans with iffy Irish accents.

[Zorral]

Watched one episode before stopping to make more foods.  Ha!  So far, goin', um this is kinda dumb, right? And ... that elf city sure looks like a hotel in Abu Dhabi, all that empty neutral colored space, particularly in the princess's empress's bedroom. 

[Spockydog]

I loved it. But I'm weird like that.

(I've watched Warcraft twice.)

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by Spockydog

[Corvinus85]

Watched about 10 minutes and stopped. I hate how run of the mill the elves are.