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Star Wars - Andor Spoilers (And Scot's Old Ass TV)


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35 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

 

The Republic is kind of winning at the end, it seems, but it may have been better to keep it more even.

Not sure I disagree overall, but Palpatine needed the Jedi to be strong and popular before he purged them. He needed it to seem that they were going to take their newly acquired strength and then take over. It was simply a bonus for him that he was attacked by Windu. His, "disfigurement" at the hands of the Jedi made him seem more plausible.  

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3 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Not sure I disagree overall, but Palpatine needed the Jedi to be strong and popular before he purged them. He needed it to seem that they were going to take their newly acquired strength and then take over. It was simply a bonus for him that he was attacked by Windu. His, "disfigurement" at the hands of the Jedi made him seem more plausible.  

That doesn't seem to be the case. The Jedi are presented as traitors because they manufactured an artificial war, with the (former) Jedi Dooku leading one side, whilst the Jedi seemingly pushed the Republic into the war with their clone army on the other side.

Palpatine carefully seeded anti-Jedi propaganda throughout the Republic before the end of the war - you see that, for instance, in the public announcement in 'Lightsaber Lost' and, I think, also in the Ahsoka arc at the end of season 5.

The Jedi aren't traitors that are toppled from a position of real strength, they are rather presented as misguided and evil fools who mistakenly relied on the loyalty of their clones ... who chose to remain to the legal authority.

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19 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

The biggest issue I've always had with the show was that the Republic/Jedi effectively never lose and the Separatists never win ... which is a pretty childish take on the war.

I always assumed the Separatists were regularly winning whenever the Jedi weren't around. We see a lot of Republic victories because of the characters we're following, but that's not representative of the war as a whole.

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A really excellent interview with Tony Gilroy about Andor. A couple of quotes:

 

Quote

"If we’re gonna do the heist, it’s like, Oh my god, after listening to Dan Harmon take the heist apart on “Rick and Morty,” you’re like, OK, what are we gonna do?!"

Quote

The shot of Syril going home on Coruscant, when he gets in an elevator and it goes down — that felt like such a perfect representation of the show, and so unlike what we’re used to seeing on “Star Wars.”

That is Coruscant. Coruscant goes down. George Lucas worked on a project for a decade that was lower Coruscant. I think it was a film and a series and they tried to do a video game. I don’t know the whole story of it, but there’s an incredible amount of work that went into lower Coruscant. It goes down

 

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2 minutes ago, felice said:

I always assumed the Separatists were regularly winning whenever the Jedi weren't around. We see a lot of Republic victories because of the characters we're following, but that's not representative of the war as a whole.

In the show it more or less is representative or the war as presented in the show, and that's a considerable flaw.

We also rarely hear any reports about Republic worlds falling to Separatist attacks, etc. offscreen. This happens sometimes, but not to a degree to send the message that the Separatists are, in any way, an effective or truly dangerous foe.

Sure enough, that is part of the 'it's a children's show' thing, but it is still a simplification that reduces its overall quality - as is the silly new name 'Separatist Alliance', them rarely mentioning that Dooku's Sith name is Darth Tyranus, and them dropping subtitles for Huttese and other alien languages.

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So Andor is coming to other platforms / channels, but only the first two episodes.  Will this actually accomplish the opposite result of what they want, and turn people off if they don't see at least episode 3?

 

ABC: Wednesday, November 23, 9-10:30 pm ET

FX: Thursday, November 24, 9-10:30 pm ET

Freeform: Friday, November 25, 9-10:30 pm ET

Hulu: Available from November 23 through December 7 

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Reached the end of The Clone Wars for the first time and, wow, that ending hits hard. Really savage. I was not expecting that level of bleakness.

Spoiler

Ahsoka taking of Rex's helmet and finding him in tears at realising what the clones have done in Order 66...shit.

 

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50 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Reached the end of The Clone Wars for the first time and, wow, that ending hits hard. Really savage. I was not expecting that level of bleakness.

  Reveal hidden contents

Ahsoka taking of Rex's helmet and finding him in tears at realising what the clones have done in Order 66...shit.

 

The finale is really great cinema. When I watched that for the first time it really took my breath away.

My favorite moment there was

Spoiler

Ahsoka's earlier confrontation with Maul where she could have been tempted and all ... but she wasn't. It was such a great moment for her story there.

The really great thing about the show is its breadth - there is comedy, tragedy, romance, horror, western, politics, intrigue, philosophy, even economy at times. That is a rare thing in (Star Wars) animation.

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On 11/14/2022 at 2:53 AM, Lord Varys said:

 

They constantly lose planets and ships and literally none of their plans ever come to fruition. It is also pretty late that the concept of 'good Separatists' is introduced - something they could have done more with, too.

...

And we could have seen more Jedi fall to Darth Tyranus and his thugs.

In the end, yes, but during the war? No.

The Republic is kind of winning at the end, it seems, but it may have been better to keep it more even.

 

On 11/14/2022 at 7:13 AM, felice said:

I always assumed the Separatists were regularly winning whenever the Jedi weren't around. We see a lot of Republic victories because of the characters we're following, but that's not representative of the war as a whole.

LV - either you're missing some of the comments or the show isn't doing as good a job of making it clear as I thought I remembered, but Felice's point is pretty much what it's meant to be. The Republic is getting absolutely hammered at multiple times through the series, the Jedi are just basically the hero units that swoop in and squash an area, but it frequently goes to shit again as soon as they leave. There are definitely cases in the show of them losing and having to pull out of the planet they're on as well, there's one relatively early where Ahsoka thinks she can turn the battle and Anakin+OBW have to yank her platoon out right before they get sandwiched from behind. There are others as well, and definitely plenty of off screen defeats. Given how much of their time is spent recapturing planets that have fallen, there had to be a defeat in the first place to need to recapture it.

On 11/15/2022 at 10:52 AM, Werthead said:

Reached the end of The Clone Wars for the first time and, wow, that ending hits hard. Really savage. I was not expecting that level of bleakness.

  Hide contents

Ahsoka taking of Rex's helmet and finding him in tears at realising what the clones have done in Order 66...shit.

It was a fantastic wrap up and I'm glad they got to go back and do it justice.

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10 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Tension, tension, and more tension.  Luthen can’t use the Fomor again.

The Fondor. The flechettes destroying the tractor beam projector was cool. I thought the lightsaber-like beams were a bit weird as a defensive system, though.

Yeah, really ramping things up to the finale on all sides. Poor Bix... And B2-EMO is just so sad.

Mon Mothma's daughter embracing Chandrilan traditionalism that her mother clearly questions makes everything much worse, because I assume Mon knows that if Davo's son it's introduced to her, Leida will likely jump at the chance of a betrothal.

I loved that Cinta and the ISB's lookout are both hanging around in the same place, each waiting for Andor, each unaware of the other's purpose. Though I suspect that Cinta will twig to it first, if she hasn't already.

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1 hour ago, Ran said:

The Fondor. The flechettes destroying the tractor beam projector was cool. I thought the lightsaber-like beams were a bit weird as a defensive system, though.

Yeah, really ramping things up to the finale on all sides. Poor Bix... And B2-EMO is just so sad.

Mon Mothma's daughter embracing Chandrilan traditionalism that her mother clearly questions makes everything much worse, because I assume Mon knows that if Davo's son it's introduced to her, Leida will likely jump at the chance of a betrothal.

I loved that Cinta and the ISB's lookout are both hanging around in the same place, each waiting for Andor, each unaware of the other's purpose. Though I suspect that Cinta will twig to it first, if she hasn't already.

If Cinta is not aware that the Imperials are watching the house by now, she's not that good of a spy.

I want to say that the Fondor's laser beams are just converted mining lasers. I could see them be more effective against bigger ships. Rake them across the hull with those lasers.

I wonder if Vel tells Luthen about Mon's troubles and he decides to give Mon the 400k she needs out of the immense Aldhani fund.

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8 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

If Cinta is not aware that the Imperials are watching the house by now, she's not that good of a spy.

I want to say that the Fondor's laser beams are just converted mining lasers. I could see them be more effective against bigger ships. Rake them across the hull with those lasers.

I wonder if Vel tells Luthen about Mon's troubles and he decides to give Mon the 400k she needs out of the immense Aldhani fund.

I don’t think getting 400k helps.  It is accounting for the debit that is the problem.  Hence the worry about the audit.

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4 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

I want to say that the Fondor's laser beams are just converted mining lasers. I could see them be more effective against bigger ships. Rake them across the hull with those lasers.

That makes the most sense to me. It takes a lot of fancy flying to nail two TIE fighters, but hey, this is one where "It's Star Wars" is fine for me.  I really thought the flechettes were cool as hell, though, and they made perfect sense as a counter-measure. 

5 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

I wonder if Vel tells Luthen about Mon's troubles and he decides to give Mon the 400k she needs out of the immense Aldhani fund.

That's my thought. It makes the most sense. But as Scot says, the issue is how to worm it into the system invisibly so that it can fill the hole in the accounts. It's one thing for Tay or Davo to do it within the financial system networks they have, quote another for Luthen to get 400k of stolen credits into the system and then in to the Mothma accounts. I suspect Vel will try, though, but Mon will make her devil's deal with Davo before that goes through.

Very excited for the finale.

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Right now episode 10 remains the best episode for me, as this had some pieces move around without much happening. Maybe that's why we got the mini space battle, to spice up some things and give us more Luthen. Luthen and Saw was my favorite part of the episode, but the whole thing was good. It was nice to see some additional non-humans in the form of the Narkian natives.

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Some fantastic moments in this one.

I felt my heart crush watching poor B2EMO deal with grief, and then crushed again by a really strong performance by Mon Mothma, and then again at the end a Cassian learns about his mum. 

Every scene in this show earns it's place though, I enjoyed every single one in this episode, there is no added fat here. 

The space battle was also awesome. On paper nothing really special, the sort of thing you would see in probably 100 clone wars episodes, but in this everything feels tense x100, the technology feels real, even seeing tie fighters in this universe gets me super hyped up in a way that doesn't happen in other shows or movies. 

Such. a. great. show.

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47 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

If Cinta is not aware that the Imperials are watching the house by now, she's not that good of a spy.

Rewatching the episode, I see now that Cinta's expression after her brief exchange with the ISB spy makes me think that she does indeed know he's ISB. 

2 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I felt my heart crush watching poor B2EMO deal with grief

Poor Bee. :( So sad. Dave Chapman, who does his voice, is doing a great job, and the sound design and puppeteering is perfect. Chapman did BB-8 stuff, was the lead performer for the alien Lady Proxima in Solo, and apparently cameoed as a masked Dwarf guard on The Rings of Power for some reason -- guess they're Star Wars fans over there?

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