Star Wars - Andor Spoilers (And Scot's Old Ass TV)

[The Bard of Banefort]

I haven’t watched Andor yet, but since this is first and foremost an ASOIAF site, I found this article interesting. What are your thoughts?

https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/tv/2022/11/3/23437524/andor-vs-house-of-the-dragon-rings-of-power-best-show

[Ran]

Can't say I disagree with the article. Andor is the show of the year for me, so far, but I have not seen a lot of new shows people are raving about like Severance.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

31 minutes ago, Ran said:

Can't say I disagree with the article. Andor is the show of the year for me, so far, but I have not seen a lot of new shows people are raving about like Severance.

You should absolutely watch Severance it is exploring consciousness and corporate control in incredibly interesting ways.  

 

 

[karaddin]

16 hours ago, mormont said:

You just have to suspend your disbelief. At some point, you need to do that in literally any genre fiction.

Just to be clear, as the person that started that little tangent, acceptance of this is central to my point. I accept that SW is like this and most of the time it's fine, sometimes the weird tech level pulls me out of the story a little before I remember it's SW but that first post was saying that even though I have issues reconciling that with how tech actually developed - it is internally consistent for the most part, which is the important thing.

I only mentioned the droid morality thing as a point of contrast because I don't think SW has been internally consistent on that point which is where it crosses into more of an actual criticism. To be fair that one is mostly inside the acceptable range, it's really just Solo that I felt crossed the line too far by making a gag of it rather than just not treating it as an issue that needed to be addressed.

ETA: And even that criticism is just talking about my ability to enjoy it. I'm not generally in the habit of trying to pick things apart, but when something strikes a dissonant cord it pulls me out

[Myrddin]

Acolyte cast revealed.

Cue Matrix, Good Place, Logan/HDM, Squid Game, and Game of Thrones cross over jokes.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

25 minutes ago, Myrddin said:

Acolyte cast revealed.

Cue Matrix, Good Place, Logan/HDM, Squid Game, and Game of Thrones cross over jokes.

You forgot “Russian Doll”.

[dbunting]

Binged episodes 7-8-9 of Andor this weekend. Still my favorite Disney Star Wars series so far. I like The Mandolorian for it's western feel. Thought Boba Fett was a waste of time. Kenobi was just ehh.  So it's nice to have Andor exceed my expectations.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

The cast and writting for Andor is among the best Television I’ve seen in quite some time.  I do think it is the best show Disney has produced since starting Disney+.

[sifth]

This show is amazing. I really wonder if the creators wanted to make their own original sci-fi show and were forced to connect it to Star Wars. It just feels so tonally different from anything Disney has made with the IP and the result has ended up being one of their best products.

[Heartofice]

Oh well that was flat out 10/10 perfect.

I want to punch the screen it's so good!! 

[Corvinus85]

BEST EPISODE!!!

Just wow. The escape was amazing with the music in the background, and Serkis's acting. The tragic look on Kino's face at the end. "I can't swim" Luthen's monologue at the end. Awards! Awards all around! Mon Mothma's part, while short, was also very solid.

[Corvinus85]

I got more to say. The immense payoff of this arc's end is making me optimistic about Mon's overall arc, who's story has definitely been a very slow burn. But each individual Cassian arc has been a slow burn that ended with a satisfying payoff. So for the last two episodes I hope/am confident that Mon's arc will end in a very powerful way.

Since the beginning of Star Wars, there were comparisons made with World War II, thanks to the aesthetic of various elements and the Empire being like the Nazis. In the context of this show and this episode, Luthen with the ISB guy was the Enigma moments. The British cracked its code, but they still let bad things happen to not let the Germans know the jig was up.

[Ran]

What. A. Show.

Just brilliant.

I admit I only felt one false note -- Luthen's speech was a bit overwritten and went too long for me. Skarsgård's delivery was, of course, flawless, but I could have had that be a bit tighter. 

I really liked Mon Mothma's bit here. Digging into Chandrilan arrange marriages and a custom of very early weddings makes the stakes for her so much more immediate, in terms of her family. The way Davo introduced the topic of marriage, the traditional Chandrilan approach to it, the sense of boundaries... really good stuff.

 

@sifth

No, it was always a Star Wars show that took off from the rather different approach to things Rogue One had. When Gilroy came fully on board, he seems to have made sure he had basically total control, and insisted that any reverence for Star Wars go out the window and that they focus on telling stories about people living under fascism that just happened to be set in the Star Wars universe.

 

[Leofric]

47 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

I got more to say. The immense payoff of this arc's end is making me optimistic about Mon's overall arc, who's story has definitely been a very slow burn. But each individual Cassian arc has been a slow burn that ended with a satisfying payoff. So for the last two episodes I hope/am confident that Mon's arc will end in a very powerful way.

Since the beginning of Star Wars, there were comparisons made with World War II, thanks to the aesthetic of various elements and the Empire being like the Nazis. In the context of this show and this episode, Luthen with the ISB guy was the Enigma moments. The British cracked its code, but they still let bad things happen to not let the Germans know the jig was up.

Luthen's speech at the end talking of sacrifice, then we switch to Mon Mothma having to decide if she is willing to sacrifice her daughter in service tot he rebellion.

 

 

[Corvinus85]

6 minutes ago, Ran said:

I admit I only felt one false note -- Luthen's speech was a bit overwritten and went too long for me. Skarsgård's delivery was, of course, flawless, but I could have had that be a bit tighter. 

Yeah, that speech was for himself and the audience, not so much for the spy. If this was a book not a show, it would have been an inner monologue. It do appreciate its somber poetry.

[Ran]

8 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Yeah, that speech was for himself and the audience, not so much for the spy. If this was a book not a show, it would have been an inner monologue. It do appreciate its somber poetry.

Yeah, it was very poetic. It felt incongruous for the show, but hell, they earned the right to throw that out there.

So, do we think Kino simply didn't allow himself to think about the fact that the only way out was swimming, or did he have that in his head the entire time? What a performance.

Personally, I'd like to think a few guys helped him stay afloat and pulled him along.

Finally, of course, going to be super interesting to see what happens next episode. How do they get off that prison planet? Or will we jump again and have it be a bit of background?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

19 minutes ago, Ran said:

Yeah, it was very poetic. It felt incongruous for the show, but hell, they earned the right to throw that out there.

So, do we think Kino simply didn't allow himself to think about the fact that the only way out was swimming, or did he have that in his head the entire time? What a performance.

Personally, I'd like to think a few guys helped him stay afloat and pulled him along.

Finally, of course, going to be super interesting to see what happens next episode. How do they get off that prison planet? Or will we jump again and have it be a bit of background?

Will Andor go after his money hidden over the shower?

[Leofric]

Luthen's whole talk with Lonnie and his line "I burn my life to make a sunrise that I know I'll never see", made me think of him in comparison to Chiwetel Ejiofor as the Operative in Serenity and his talk with Mal.

The Operative: "I believe in something greater than myself. A better world. A world without sin."

Mal: "So me and mine gotta lay down and die... so you can live in your better world?"

The Operative: "I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... any more than there is for you. Malcolm... I'm a monster.What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done."

One is basically supporting an evil Empire while the other is fighting against one, but they are both willing to do whatever they need to in order to achieve their goal, their belief they are making a better world, but not for themselves.

 

[Ran]

@LeofricNice comparison. Yeah, two sides of the same coin. Sun Tzu's maxim, "To know your enemy, you must become your enemy," definitely seems to be a part of what's going on with Luthen. The Aldahni raid directly leads to the PORD which introduces wildly new draconian sentencing and possibly even causes the prison to shift to permanent slavery mode (we don't know), and Luthen says, "Good" because the Empire's increasing its stranglehold on the populace will bolster the fledgling Rebellion.

[Ran]

A pretty cool article on the production and costume design.