Star Wars - Andor Spoilers (And Scot's Old Ass TV)

[karaddin]

The way I think it works best is if you assume the current set up in this prison was not going to stay like that long term. It was set up to handle prisoners that had no reason to risk their lives trying to flee and it hadn't yet received the staff and facility upgrades that would be in place before they tell people they're never getting out.

That's why Cassian is saying "it has to be now", because the current situation won't last and the prisoners will settle back into resignation over time. 

[Raja]

I'm interested.

[Ran]

6 minutes ago, Raja said:

I'm interested.

Oh. My. God.

[Martell Spy]

Quote

He's more like a true believer union rep than management

Serkis anyway sees him as a union leader. 

 

Andy Serkis teases details about his new Andor character Kino Loy

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/andy-serkis-teases-details-andor-044451527.html

Quote

 

Serkis, however, surmised that “what I imagined of Kino’s backstory, before he was in prison, was that he was a union leader. He’s used to working as a foreman”.

“I wanted him to come from a place where he was put in prison for, perhaps, standing up for workers’ rights, and then put into a position of authority because that’s what he does,” he said.

 

 

[Ran]

A very interesting interview with Tony Gilroy. Season 2 will jump a year ahead after each three episode block, rather than cover a year in a season as this season has been doing.

[Corvinus85]

12 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Must say the break-out was somewhat too cheesy for me. They did pretty good work there, evoking a sense of labor/concentration camp ... and then you can, apparently, just swim away from the place?

One would imagine that if the Empire built such a play it would ensure it is at a location you cannot possibly swim away from.

If the hydro power was still on they would have been sucked into the vortices we saw before. So they kinda did built it for no escape, just not for prisoners take over and cut the power.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Corvinus85

[Ran]

Oh, good point about the hydro power. Yeah, that would have been nasty if it had still been on.

 

[Relic]

1 minute ago, Ran said:

A very interesting interview with Tony Gilroy. Season 2 will jump a year ahead after each three episode block, rather than cover a year in a season as this season has been doing.

Yeah, 2nd and final season will lead almost directly into Rogue 1, i think, which is 5 years after the start of Andor s1

[Ran]

Just now, Relic said:

Yeah, 2nd and final season will lead almost directly into Rogue 1, i think, which is 5 years after the start of Andor s1

I hadn't realized they were doing it like that. I mean, I knew it was only 2 seasons from the initial 5 seasons plan, but thought they'd jump several years to the year prior to Rogue One. Interesting approach he's taking.

He even addresses complaints about the lack of aliens in that particular prison.

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

If the hydro power was still on they would have been sucked into the vortices we saw before. So they kinda did built it for no escape, just not for prisoners take over and cut the power.

True enough, still no reason, though, to not put the prison a couple of kilometers farther from the beach, so if folks were to ever escape they would inevitably drown.

I mean, sure enough, just getting out of the ocean doesn't yet mean they got away ... but this could have been the point where they introduced some marine aliens helping them escape.

It would have also fit Star Wars better if the planet had been a more or less complete water world, not a place where the beach is right around the next corner.

[Ran]

9 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

to not put the prison a couple of kilometers farther from the beach

We know nothing of the ocean floor. It may not have been possible to build further back.

[Lord of Oop North]

At some point we have to accept that the prison is there because that is what the Empire decided to do.

I loved this arc, it was perfectly executed, and fit the theme of the show.

The prison has been setup under the idea that the inmates police themselves. The wardens have created an illusion, and in doing so instilled the idea of higher power in the minds of the prisoners. To the prisoner, they are helpless. Everything is on program, and the guards are watching everything. That fighting the power is impossible, and falling in line is the only choice. But that idea is a fiction.

The guards have been tricked by the same fiction. They feel their rule is inevitable, thus they are lazy. The idea of rebellion is simply unthinkable, because they have convinced themselves they are so powerful.

That idea is the Empire itself - to rule with arrogance and by brute force, tricking free people into ever feeling free. But the truth is, the Empire cannot rule the galaxy by brute force. The galaxy is too large, and the loyalists too few. It can only rule by convincing some free people that it is inevitable, that they must play along (i.e. Syril, Kino) and by convincing the rest that fighting is impossible. But that arrogance is their weakness - just like in the prison.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by Lord of Oop North

[JGP]

lol nevermind, didn't check upthread first.

Edited November 10, 2022 by JGP

[HokieStone]

Like most folks, I enjoyed the episode, but I guess I can nitpick the escape as well.  Aren't there several of those prisons right next to each other?  I assume there's comms between the prisons.  Surely someone from another prison would see the prisoners all swimming away.  And I'm surprised there's not some kind of air support, be it TIEs or just armed shuttles.  They even had TIEs on Aldhani, a planet with a small population of primitive natives (not to mention in previous movies where they had AT-ATs and AT-STs on planets like Endor and Scarif.

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, Ran said:

We know nothing of the ocean floor. It may not have been possible to build further back.

Yes, of course, we could come up with a hundred made up explanations as to why the prison was where it is ... but I prefer not to unless the show as such gave us or hinted at such an explanation. I also daresay there is no chance that it had been as close to the beach that a bunch of prisoners who aren't professional swimmers can reach the shore.

I mean, I'm not how great a swimmer you are, but there is no chance you reach the shore if there is a current of note and you are more than a couple of kilometers away from the shore.

Even more so if you don't know anything about the waters, and may not even know where exactly the shoreline is (I don't recall whether they actually saw the land when they jumped into the water - I only realized that there was a shoreline when Cassian had reached it).

[Lord of Oop North]

7 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

 

I mean, I'm not how great a swimmer you are, but there is no chance you reach the shore if there is a current of note and you are more than a couple of kilometers away from the shore.

Even more so if you don't know anything about the waters, and may not even know where exactly the shoreline is (I don't recall whether they actually saw the land when they jumped into the water - I only realized that there was a shoreline when Cassian had reached it).

They can see the land when they are standing on the platform prior to jumping.

[Lord Varys]

Okay, then at least the direction works out. And it seems to that not that many of them made it, so realism is kept up to a point.

I honestly hope the whole thing has nothing to do with the Death Star.

This is a Galactic Empire. They should be able to build scores of Death Stars and still have resources for a lot of other stuff.

[Lord of Oop North]

49 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I honestly hope the whole thing has nothing to do with the Death Star.

This is a Galactic Empire. They should be able to build scores of Death Stars and still have resources for a lot of other stuff.

I hope this is just left open. In the end, it does not matter what they are building exactly. That isn't important to the theme that was explored.

For all we know, in the next prison over they were disassembling what we saw them assembling. The widgets themselves are not key to the story. There need not be real reason for the labour itself - the labour is just an aspect of the control system put in place. An integral part. It demonstrates well how the prisoners have bought in to the system. They are governed by their own, and they must work productively to win the shift. What do they win? Well, nothing it seems - but you certainly don't want to lose. The Empire might notice losing. 

We can recall real world examples - even the Nazi's sometimes had useless forced labour in their camps. During the early years for instance, unemployment in Germany was still high, so there was hard forced labour which was ultimately economically useless. The actual forced labour for armaments grew and grew over time, especially later in the war. There are also plenty of examples from Victorian England, of prison labour that was instituted more for 'moral' than economic reasons.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Lord of Oop North

[RumHam]

Quote

 

When this offer came up, did your seven-and-a-half minutes of screen time in the Star Wars sequel trilogy as a CG character named Snoke cause you any hesitation?

Only that I thought it would cause complete uproar and more confusion for the audience, thinking that there would be some sort of connection between the Supreme Leader and Kino Loy. So that was my only [hang-up]. I thought, “Am I really going to go into this melee of uncertainty again?”

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/andor-andy-serkis-on-episode-10-1235257860/

It's hard to imagine anyone thinking this escaped prisoner somehow went on to become Snoke. Especially since they explained what Snoke was already? Weird. 

[Corvinus85]

7 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

True enough, still no reason, though, to not put the prison a couple of kilometers farther from the beach, so if folks were to ever escape they would inevitably drown.

I mean, sure enough, just getting out of the ocean doesn't yet mean they got away ... but this could have been the point where they introduced some marine aliens helping them escape.

It would have also fit Star Wars better if the planet had been a more or less complete water world, not a place where the beach is right around the next corner.

Like everyone else, more so than most others, the Empire goes with the lowest bidder for their construction projects, and is known to coerce engineers and architects into building their stuff. If they wanted to spare no expense, they would have put cameras and listening devices in the cell blocks, they would have had security droids monitoring things 24/7. The location of the prison is in theme with what the show has been telling us about the Empire - they're arrogant and complacent.

6 hours ago, HokieStone said:

Like most folks, I enjoyed the episode, but I guess I can nitpick the escape as well.  Aren't there several of those prisons right next to each other?  I assume there's comms between the prisons.  Surely someone from another prison would see the prisoners all swimming away.  And I'm surprised there's not some kind of air support, be it TIEs or just armed shuttles.  They even had TIEs on Aldhani, a planet with a small population of primitive natives (not to mention in previous movies where they had AT-ATs and AT-STs on planets like Endor and Scarif.

At the end it looked like there were aerial vehicles with search lights going around. I think that the facility commander tried to resolve the situation by himself and then it was too late to call for backup until the prisoners left.

In Aldhani's case it's established the planet used to have an air base which the Empire simply coopted, the planet is in a strategic location, and there were plans of expanding the military presence.

In Endor's case, they had a strong garrison because they were building the DS2 there and the Emperor brought in additional forces because of the trap he set of the Rebels. So that's why there walkers there. Scarif is also a highly important planet considering that they bothered enveloping it with a shield.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Corvinus85