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The Servants Of Darkness


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The Others have allies in the world of men.  Some men are willing allies and some do not know any better.  I am slowly refining my theories and I hope to have a single theory that can explain the conflict between Fire and Ice.  

The willing allies are Euron, the Citadel, the Faceless Men, and the Starks' ancestors.  I give to you a famous quote:

Quote

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

 

Euron, like the Faceless Men, cause mass deaths.  He expects a reward of power for his services.  The ancestors of the Starks expected the same rewards for their services.  These services are human sacrifices.  The Citadel's leadership know of the Others and serve them.  I can give the majority of the Maesters the benefit of the doubt and believe they are ignorant.  The Archmaesters and the teachers push their ideologies through the curriculum.  They want to hide the existence of magic and the Others from the people.  @Bowen Marsh said something that filled one hole in the puzzle.  The Order of Maesters is a religious cult hiding behind the shield of academics and science.  The real purpose of the cult is to make the way easier for the Others.  Arya's acceptance into the Order was no accident.  Her ancestors served the Others and they are counting on her to carry out a mass murder on an unprecedented level.  

I now believe the Grand Maesters were "poisoning" the Targaryen kings.  They know of the Prince Who Was Promised and Azor Ahai.  They will do anything to try to stop Azor Ahai from returning.  But Nature and fate are more powerful.  What must happen took place on the edge of the Dothraki Sea when Daenerys Targaryen was reborn into Azor Ahai.  Her birth and rebirth had to take place in the safety of exile where the Maesters have no access.  It had to happen in Essos where there are none of those blasted weir woods.  

Edited by James Fenimore Cooper XXII
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I agree with some of the ancient Starks, the Faceless Men, and definitely Euron being the agents of the Others who work South of the Wall.  Not so much on the Citadel.  The other three all have thematic hints or outright examples....the Citadel just has one disgruntled maester who thinks there's a conspiracy.  IMO.

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5 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The Order of Maesters is a religious cult hiding behind the shield of academics and science.  The real purpose of the cult is to make the way easier for the Others.

Is there any actual proof for the Citadel being some secret evil cult?

5 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Arya's acceptance into the Order was no accident.

Arya was accepted into the Faceless Men, not citadel.

5 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Her ancestors served the Others and they are counting on her to carry out a mass murder on an unprecedented level. 

Really?

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26 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Is there any actual proof for the Citadel being some secret evil cult?

Arya was accepted into the Faceless Men, not citadel.

Really?

The leaders of the Citadel are seemingly blinkered and stupid, rather than a pro-Other cult.

In a world where magic is real, trying to pretend it does not exist is folly.

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8 minutes ago, SeanF said:

The leaders of the Citadel are seemingly blinkered and stupid, rather than a pro-Other cult.

In a world where magic is real, trying to pretend it does not exist is folly.

I'm not denying their ignorance but that doesn't mean they are part of some secret evil cult. Being ignorant of the Others/pretending they don't exist doesn't mean that they are actively pro-Other, or worship them. Unless the argument is that they are purposefully trying to make people believe the Others aren't real so they can invade unopposed. But I can't see how there's much proof for that, if any.

And so far all the 'evidence' for the Citadel being up to no good comes from Marwyn. who's words don't actually line up with what's happening, and Barbary Dustin, who is a bitter, spiteful old woman seeking to blame the Maesters for Rickard not marrying her.

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9 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The Others have allies in the world of men.  Some men are willing allies and some do not know any better.  I am slowly refining my theories and I hope to have a single theory that can explain the conflict between Fire and Ice.  

The willing allies are Euron, the Citadel, the Faceless Men, and the Starks' ancestors.  I give to you a famous quote:

 

Euron, like the Faceless Men, cause mass deaths.  He expects a reward of power for his services.  The ancestors of the Starks expected the same rewards for their services.  These services are human sacrifices.  The Citadel's leadership know of the Others and serve them.  I can give the majority of the Maesters the benefit of the doubt and believe they are ignorant.  The Archmaesters and the teachers push their ideologies through the curriculum.  They want to hide the existence of magic and the Others from the people.  @Bowen Marsh said something that filled one hole in the puzzle.  The Order of Maesters is a religious cult hiding behind the shield of academics and science.  The real purpose of the cult is to make the way easier for the Others.  Arya's acceptance into the Order was no accident.  Her ancestors served the Others and they are counting on her to carry out a mass murder on an unprecedented level.  

I now believe the Grand Maesters were "poisoning" the Targaryen kings.  They know of the Prince Who Was Promised and Azor Ahai.  They will do anything to try to stop Azor Ahai from returning.  But Nature and fate are more powerful.  What must happen took place on the edge of the Dothraki Sea when Daenerys Targaryen was reborn into Azor Ahai.  Her birth and rebirth had to take place in the safety of exile where the Maesters have no access.  It had to happen in Essos where there are none of those blasted weir woods.  

 

 

Rats is used to describe servants twice.  By Lady Dustin to describe the Maesters and by Dany to describe the Servitors in the HOTU.  The Maesters succor the return of darkness.  It's a fckd up organization like the faceless men.  If the faceless men can find a reason to worship death then the leaders of the teachers could do the same. 

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15 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The Citadel's leadership know of the Others and serve them.

There's really no evidence for the Citadel as an institution serving the Others or for being a secret religious cult. That readers suspect the maesters had a hand in eliminating Targaryens does not automatically make them servants of the Others either. As an order that seeks to promote scientific knowledge in place of magic and superstition, they are just as likely to reject magic associated with the Others. The Targs with their supernatural bonding to dragons were tangible manifestations that could be tackled, while wargs, greenseers within weirwoods and Others probably have not even been an issue for centuries because they either don't exist south of the Wall or are not at all clearly recognisable. 

The only evident active connection between the Citadel and magic are its two renegade members - Marwyn and the chainless former maester Qyburn. Both flout the Citadel's ethical code, though Marwyn has kept his job. Qyburn may be unwittingly "supporting" the Others or even the Red God on account of his research and successful raising of Robert Strong. But then again his knowledge of the subject matter might become the key to disarming the Others. He may, for example, be able to devise a way to break the bonds between the wights and their masters without having to resort to a field of fire or hand to hand combat against an army of the dead. 

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I could perhaps see the Faceless Men doggedly pursuing some means to extinguish the dragons and thus rid the world of the monsters that empowered their slavers--only to find themselves giving power to a different kind of slaver, one that enslaves the dead and extinguishes all life from the world. I don't think it will happen, but it has a certain poetry to it. I'm not against it.

The Citadel, if there is or was any conspiracy, it's to rid the world of all magic, not just dragons. Their interests are served when the world is predictable. As others have said here, the main critique of the Citadel that we've seen is that the knowledge class has lost touch with information that's vital for the world's survival. They are ignorant and out of touch, not at all invested in the song of ice and fire.

Euron, of course.

 

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The Targaryens are the protagonists in A Song of Ice and Fire. George Martin allowed to slip in one interview that the reason for the three Targaryens to conquer Westeros was a prophecy.  They knew about the White Walkers.  The Faceless Men, Euron, and the Kings in the North probably knew.  The Citadel is too diverse.  Their ranks come from different families.  It would have been impossible to keep such a conspiracy a secret for so long.  If there is a terror group behind the poisoning of the Targaryens it is the Faith.  Maegor and Visenya should have baked all of them and outlawed the religion.  The Starks were killing and sacrificing people to their their trees but they are too far away to plot against the Targaryens until Rickard came along. 

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On 10/30/2022 at 9:00 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The Others have allies in the world of men.  Some men are willing allies and some do not know any better.  I am slowly refining my theories and I hope to have a single theory that can explain the conflict between Fire and Ice.  

The willing allies are Euron, the Citadel, the Faceless Men, and the Starks' ancestors.  I give to you a famous quote:

 

Euron, like the Faceless Men, cause mass deaths.  He expects a reward of power for his services.  The ancestors of the Starks expected the same rewards for their services.  These services are human sacrifices.  The Citadel's leadership know of the Others and serve them.  I can give the majority of the Maesters the benefit of the doubt and believe they are ignorant.  The Archmaesters and the teachers push their ideologies through the curriculum.  They want to hide the existence of magic and the Others from the people.  @Bowen Marsh said something that filled one hole in the puzzle.  The Order of Maesters is a religious cult hiding behind the shield of academics and science.  The real purpose of the cult is to make the way easier for the Others.  Arya's acceptance into the Order was no accident.  Her ancestors served the Others and they are counting on her to carry out a mass murder on an unprecedented level.  

I now believe the Grand Maesters were "poisoning" the Targaryen kings.  They know of the Prince Who Was Promised and Azor Ahai.  They will do anything to try to stop Azor Ahai from returning.  But Nature and fate are more powerful.  What must happen took place on the edge of the Dothraki Sea when Daenerys Targaryen was reborn into Azor Ahai.  Her birth and rebirth had to take place in the safety of exile where the Maesters have no access.  It had to happen in Essos where there are none of those blasted weir woods.  

The Ghost of High Heart saw a very dark future for Arya Stark.  The old woman called Arya "Darkheart."  Catelyn is Stoneheart. Arya is becoming Darkheart.  Jon will become Coldheart. 

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On 10/30/2022 at 9:00 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The Others have allies in the world of men.  Some men are willing allies and some do not know any better.  I am slowly refining my theories and I hope to have a single theory that can explain the conflict between Fire and Ice.  

The willing allies are Euron, the Citadel, the Faceless Men, and the Starks' ancestors.  I give to you a famous quote:

 

Euron, like the Faceless Men, cause mass deaths.  He expects a reward of power for his services.  The ancestors of the Starks expected the same rewards for their services.  These services are human sacrifices.  The Citadel's leadership know of the Others and serve them.  I can give the majority of the Maesters the benefit of the doubt and believe they are ignorant.  The Archmaesters and the teachers push their ideologies through the curriculum.  They want to hide the existence of magic and the Others from the people.  @Bowen Marsh said something that filled one hole in the puzzle.  The Order of Maesters is a religious cult hiding behind the shield of academics and science.  The real purpose of the cult is to make the way easier for the Others.  Arya's acceptance into the Order was no accident.  Her ancestors served the Others and they are counting on her to carry out a mass murder on an unprecedented level.  

I now believe the Grand Maesters were "poisoning" the Targaryen kings.  They know of the Prince Who Was Promised and Azor Ahai.  They will do anything to try to stop Azor Ahai from returning.  But Nature and fate are more powerful.  What must happen took place on the edge of the Dothraki Sea when Daenerys Targaryen was reborn into Azor Ahai.  Her birth and rebirth had to take place in the safety of exile where the Maesters have no access.  It had to happen in Essos where there are none of those blasted weir woods.  

The founding fathers of the citadel knew about the Others.  They were acolytes of darkness.  The devil succeeded.  People ridicule the idea.  Grumkins and snarks as they call them.  Even the maesters themselves have forgotten over time.  Lewin and Aemon seemed ignorant of the Others.   The Starks were party to the cover up.  

Arya is a weapon of the Faceless Men.  The culture, or milieu, where she grew up is also responsible for what Arya has become. It's not only the damage and shock from the trauma of watching the downfall of her family.  They are upsetting but it is the totality of Arya's experiences which has made her sick.  The more time she spends with the Faceless Men and the more victims she kills from her notebook will only carry her deeper into insanity.  She will cut a bloody path to Castle Black after she is told of her brother's death.  

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7 hours ago, Son of Man said:

The founding fathers of the citadel knew about the Others.  They were acolytes of darkness.  The devil succeeded.

That's a nice idea, but is there any textual evidence to back it up?

7 hours ago, Son of Man said:

The Starks were party to the cover up.

What cover up? The non-existent one?

7 hours ago, Son of Man said:

carry her deeper into insanity

Arya is not insane. Nor is she going insane. This is a fact.

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On 10/31/2022 at 6:30 AM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The Others have allies in the world of men.  Some men are willing allies and some do not know any better.  I am slowly refining my theories and I hope to have a single theory that can explain the conflict between Fire and Ice.  

The willing allies are Euron, the Citadel, the Faceless Men, and the Starks' ancestors.  I give to you a famous quote:

 

Euron, like the Faceless Men, cause mass deaths.  He expects a reward of power for his services.  The ancestors of the Starks expected the same rewards for their services.  These services are human sacrifices.  The Citadel's leadership know of the Others and serve them.  I can give the majority of the Maesters the benefit of the doubt and believe they are ignorant.  The Archmaesters and the teachers push their ideologies through the curriculum.  They want to hide the existence of magic and the Others from the people.  @Bowen Marsh said something that filled one hole in the puzzle.  The Order of Maesters is a religious cult hiding behind the shield of academics and science.  The real purpose of the cult is to make the way easier for the Others.  Arya's acceptance into the Order was no accident.  Her ancestors served the Others and they are counting on her to carry out a mass murder on an unprecedented level.  

I now believe the Grand Maesters were "poisoning" the Targaryen kings.  They know of the Prince Who Was Promised and Azor Ahai.  They will do anything to try to stop Azor Ahai from returning.  But Nature and fate are more powerful.  What must happen took place on the edge of the Dothraki Sea when Daenerys Targaryen was reborn into Azor Ahai.  Her birth and rebirth had to take place in the safety of exile where the Maesters have no access.  It had to happen in Essos where there are none of those blasted weir woods.  

How many times a duck quacks, its still the same sound. 

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The faceless men and Euron are pure evil.  Arya is a victim of her experiences and mental illness.  The Ghost of High Heart foresaw a very grim future for Arya Stark.  She doesn't know it now but she will become an instrument of mass destruction for the dark side.  The archmaesters are covering up for centuries of undermining the Targaryen.  It doesn't matter what they know today but the act of betraying the Targaryens make the Enablers of the white walkers.  

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On 10/31/2022 at 3:25 AM, SeanF said:

In a world where magic is real, trying to pretend it does not exist is folly.

I don't think they are pretending magic doesn't exist.  Magic may be real in that world, but it is rare.  Tyrion is the "smartest character in the books" (supposedly), and he doesn't believe in magic.  Barely anyone at the Wall even believed in the wights until one tried to kill Jeor Mormont... and that was the very purpose for their existence.  South of the Wall, what magic has been observed during their lifetimes?  There aren't any wizards shooting lightning bolts out of their hands.  Probably the most blatant form of magic that happened in Westeros (south of the Wall) in the story is Melisandre conjuring up a shadow baby, but how many people would actually believe Catelyn or Brienne's tale?  It would just be another "grumkin or snark".

The passage below doesn't imply that the Citadel is anti-magic, either.  Maybe only one maester in a hundred wears it... but why make a link for magic if magic is forbidden?  And why make that particular link out of the most precious of metals?  They doubt because they haven't seen proof, not because they refuse to believe.  Just because Marwyn says something doesn't mean it is true.

Quote

Luwin slid a finger up under his collar and began to turn it, inch by inch. He had a thick neck for a small man, and the chain was tight, but a few pulls had it all the way around. "This is Valyrian steel," he said when the link of dark grey metal lay against the apple of his throat. "Only one maester in a hundred wears such a link. This signifies that I have studied what the Citadel calls the higher mysteries—magic, for want of a better word. A fascinating pursuit, but of small use, which is why so few maesters trouble themselves with it.

"All those who study the higher mysteries try their own hand at spells, soon or late. I yielded to the temptation too, I must confess it. Well, I was a boy, and what boy does not secretly wish to find hidden powers in himself? I got no more for my efforts than a thousand boys before me, and a thousand since. Sad to say, magic does not work."

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On 11/1/2022 at 8:22 PM, Son of Man said:

The founding fathers of the citadel knew about the Others.  They were acolytes of darkness.  The devil succeeded.  People ridicule the idea.  Grumkins and snarks as they call them. 

The black stone foundation of the Hightower's tower is suspect.  There is an old anime called Heavy Metal where a mysterious ball turned people to evil.  The black stones mess with people's minds and turn them against the light.  The black stone is the antiLight. 

 

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