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Not all changes to Daemon were justified, but overall he's great


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I would have prefered it if Daemon had killed Laenor and we skipped Rhea's death completly. We could have had just a scene where a messenger goes to Daemon annuncing the death of his wife and see him smile.

Overall that scene was very weird, no talk from Daemon, I'm still trying to figure out how he intended to kill her while spooking the horse with his hand... :dunno:

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1 hour ago, Khloey said:

I would have prefered it if Daemon had killed Laenor and we skipped Rhea's death completly. We could have had just a scene where a messenger goes to Daemon annuncing the death of his wife and see him smile.

Overall that scene was very weird, no talk from Daemon, I'm still trying to figure out how he intended to kill her while spooking the horse with his hand... :dunno:

He didn't, not when he first came there. He just kind of went with the flow. It seemed ike he wouldn't have even finished her off if she hadn't taunted him.

Daemon in general isn't the greatest planner out there, he is just chaotic.

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4 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

Daemon in general isn't the greatest planner out there, he is just chaotic.

Another reason why he would make a bad ruling king.

5 hours ago, Khloey said:

I would have prefered it if Daemon had killed Laenor

With or without Rhaenyra's consent?

I think the show made a good choice in deciding to fake Laenor's death. But I think Rhaenyra consenting to or actively participating in her husband's murder would have been a bad move. Rhaenyra can become dark and complicated and a bad decisionmaker later on...there's plenty of time for that. For her to do something like that that early on...it would've been too soon.

Edited by BlackLightning
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6 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

Another reason why he would make a bad ruling king.

With or without Rhaenyra's consent?

I think the show made a good choice in deciding to fake Laenor's death. But I think Rhaenyra consenting to or actively participating in her husband's murder would have been a bad move. Rhaenyra can become dark and complicated and a bad decisionmaker later on...there's plenty of time for that. For her to do something like that that early on...it would've been too soon.

If Rhaenyra were actually involved in Laenor's death then this whole thing would immediately raise the question why they never tried to (and eventually successfully did) kill the Green leaders.

A Rhaenyra murdering her own husband should also be willing to murder her stepmother, Otto, or her half-brothers.

For the show I'd have gone with Laenor being murdered simply by Qarl for his own motives or I'd have gone with it being an accidental death. And if there was a fake death I'd have gone with a fake death via a faked accidental death, not a weirdo faked murder.

They are on an island. Boats can sink, and people can drown. It should be easy for a rich guy to pretend he went overboard and drowned in the sea or that he was aboard a boat or ship that sank.

Hell, they could have even gone with a drunk Laenor falling off his dragon and drowning in the sea.

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8 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

If Rhaenyra were actually involved in Laenor's death then this whole thing would immediately raise the question why they never tried to (and eventually successfully did) kill the Green leaders.

A Rhaenyra murdering her own husband should also be willing to murder her stepmother, Otto, or her half-brothers.

For the show I'd have gone with Laenor being murdered simply by Qarl for his own motives or I'd have gone with it being an accidental death. And if there was a fake death I'd have gone with a fake death via a faked accidental death, not a weirdo faked murder.

They are on an island. Boats can sink, and people can drown. It should be easy for a rich guy to pretend he went overboard and drowned in the sea or that he was aboard a boat or ship that sank.

Hell, they could have even gone with a drunk Laenor falling off his dragon and drowning in the sea.

But they were trying to do the book story of Qarl killing Laenor and Daemon being rumored to be behind it, with a twist.

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8 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

But they were trying to do the book story of Qarl killing Laenor and Daemon being rumored to be without it, with a twist.

I'm aware of that, but it pretty much failed.

The problem with Daemon/Rhaenyra helping him with that and it being presented as a murder is (1) not convincing as presented (no build-up for Laenor/Qarl agreeing to do such a shitty thing which actually included a real murder, no chance the Velaryons would actually buy that fake Laenor's body is actually Laenor once they actually had time to, you know, look at his hands, feet, breast, etc.) and (2) there is no chance that Luke would remain Corlys' heir, that Rhaenys would offer any opposition to Vaemond's power grab, and that Rhaenyra turning out to be a nice and measured queen would convince the Velaryons to side with a couple they actually view as the people who arranged the murder of their son.

They still believe that and still side with her and Daemon. It just doesn't make any sense.

In a realistic setting they would side with the Greens and they cut ties completely with Rhaenyra/Daemon and their relations. The girls could either side with Corlys/Rhaenys or Rhaenyra/Daemon.

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5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I'm aware of that, but it pretty much failed.

The problem with Daemon/Rhaenyra helping him with that and it being presented as a murder is (1) not convincing as presented (no build-up for Laenor/Qarl agreeing to do such a shitty thing which actually included a real murder, no chance the Velaryons would actually buy that fake Laenor's body is actually Laenor once they actually had time to, you know, look at his hands, feet, breast, etc.) and (2) there is no chance that Luke would remain Corlys' heir, that Rhaenys would offer any opposition to Vaemond's power grab, and that Rhaenyra turning out to be a nice and measured queen would convince the Velaryons to side with a couple they actually view as the people who arranged the murder of their son.

They still believe that and still side with her and Daemon. It just doesn't make any sense.

In a realistic setting they would side with the Greens and they cut ties completely with Rhaenyra/Daemon and their relations. The girls could either side with Corlys/Rhaenys or Rhaenyra/Daemon.

Well in that case, that (Corlys and Rhaenys siding with Rhaenyra), if  you think it's a problem in the show, is akso a problem in the book.

I don't have a problem they would side their granddaughters, who can't escape being Daemon's daughters.

And why would Rhaenys side with her brother in law and allow him to fully disinherit her granddaughters? Especially after Rhaenyra gave her on offer where Rhaena would become Lady of Driftmark through marriage and Rhaenys' great grandchildren would be the heirs. 

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1 hour ago, Annara Snow said:

Well in that case, that (Corlys and Rhaenys siding with Rhaenyra), if  you think it's a problem in the show, is akso a problem in the book.

It is also a problem in the book, although less so since the idea that Daemon may have arranged the murder of Laenor is there only presented as an outlandish idea purported by Mushroom, not something that crucial people in-universe seemed to believe at the time.

If the Velaryons don't believe that Daemon (and Rhaenyra) had anything to do with Laenor's murder (and they actually didn't have to do anything with that) it makes sense that they would support Rhaenyra's claim.

The book clearly has an obvious weakness there, of course, in the sense that apparently the Velaryons never actually believed that Daemon/Rhaenyra may have been the ones to arrange Laenor's death so they could marry. So the job of the show would have been to ensure it made sense that (1) the Velaryons don't believe they were involved in Laenor's death and support them or (2) have them believe they were involved in Laenor's death and support them.

At that the show clearly failed. The way things are it makes little sense that they actually support them, much less accept any of Rhaenyra's bastards as heirs to Driftmark or as future husbands of their trueborn granddaughters.

In what feudal world would a royal princess and the richest lord in the kingdom actually let it stand that their son was not only cuckolded by his wife but then also murdered by said wife and her new lover? They would allow themselves and their house to be turned into laughingstocks.

In fact, Daemon/Rhaenyra would have mistreated House Velaryon much worse than anyone in the Black camp mistreated Alicent and anyone in team Green. Cuckolding and murdering Laenor is much, much worse than taking out Aemond's eye.

1 hour ago, Annara Snow said:

I don't have a problem they would side their granddaughters, who can't escape being Daemon's daughters.

If they are in team Velaryon - as Baela is in episode 8 (for some reason) Rhaenys' ward - to be sure. If they side with the murdering cunt Rhaenyra and the murdering asshole Daemon I don't think they would stand by them.

1 hour ago, Annara Snow said:

And why would Rhaenys side with her brother in law and allow him to fully disinherit her granddaughters? Especially after Rhaenyra gave her on offer where Rhaena would become Lady of Driftmark through marriage and Rhaenys' great grandchildren would be the heirs. 

A Rhaenys who actually believes that Rhaenyra/Daemon murdered Laenor so they could fuck and marry is not particularly likely to believe and buy any desperate offers she might make. Even more so since Rhaenys could just as well marry Baela to Vaemond or whatever sons Vaemond might have (in the book he has two, Daemion and Daeron) ... or, better still, to one of Alicent's sons.

The Velaryon matches make sense to gloss over the cuckolding thing, to ensure that eventually some descendant of Rhaenys and Corlys who isn't just a Velaryon in name only rules in Driftmark ... but this whole thing could not possibly smooth over the murder of Laenor Velaryon. That would be an unforgivable crime, something that cries for vengeance and justice. Velaryon assassins should have put down both Rhaenyra and Daemon in the gap between episode 7 & 8, possibly in Blood and Cheese style. That would fit with how things are done in this world ... not doing nothing at all.

The way things are presented the only way it would make sense is if there were rumors that Rhaenyra/Daemon may have been behind the murder but neither Corlys nor Rhaenys actually believed it and were merely pissed that they married as quickly as they did. It could have also made sense if only one of the couple - either Corlys or Rhaenys but not both - would have believed that Rhaenyra/Daemon were ultimately behind their son's death. Say, Rhaenys believes it, but Corlys doesn't, and that's why he leaves and keeps Luke as his heir (which he would never do nor would Rhaenys support it in the show if they believed Luke's mother murdered Laenor).

Alternatively, it could have made much more sense in the setting if Laenor hadn't been murdered in the show but died in an accident - or his fake death had been a fake accident rather than a fake murder.

The best way out of the whole mess would have been to have Rhaenyra/Daemon tell Rhaenys (and eventually Corlys) the truth about their son's fate - that he was still alive. A way to do this in the show would have been via a letter in Laenor's own hand - Rhaenyra could have handed it to Rhaenys in episode 8.

The show having Rhaenys on the one hand believing Rhaenyra murdered her son so she could fuck and marry her uncle, the widower of her daughter, while on the other hand she has an arc that has her assessing Rhaenyra's ability as the future queen throughout the season which causes her to eventually declare for her just doesn't go well together. In fact, it doesn't work at all.

What sane or internally consistent person would be fine with her son's murder at the command of the woman whose abilities as a ruler she also assesses impartially?

Why would Rhaenys not support Alicent and Aegon when Alicent makes her offer? Alicent and the Greens never harmed or hurt House Velaryon in any meaningful way. Okay, they were rivals twenty years ago when Viserys remarried ... but that was it. The Greens were not involved in Laenor's cuckolding nor in his murder and you even can view Alicent's take on the Strong boys as her defending the honor of Laenor Velaryon and his house. Laenor wouldn't have agreed then ... but Corlys and Rhaenys could have viewed it as such when the whore princess had Laenor murdered.

Hell, everything could have made more sense if we had just gotten Rhaenys and Corlys eventually say that they (no longer) believed that Rhaenyra/Daemon did arrange Laenor's murder. Rhaenys could have said as much in episode 8, and/or in episode 10 when she convinced Corlys to support Rhaenyra.

This whole thing is just pretty bad writing - and it is sad, because there were easy ways to make it work better. They could have gone with Laenor faking his death and the general plot and the motivations of the Velaryons making (more) sense.

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7 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I mean House Velaryon supported the Blacks despite all this in the books.

Sure enough. But I think I wrote in detail about why the portrayal in the show doesn't make (much) sense.

Them introducing the element of Rhaenyra herself also being a suspect in the alleged Laenor murder was a smart move - if you fly with the 'somebody arranged the murder' then Rhaenyra is a suspect as much as Daemon, possibly more.

But as I said - it makes no sense to assume that the Velaryons would believe their son was murdered at Rhaenyra's and Daemon's behest while still (1) keeping Luke as heir, (2) maintaining the fiction that Rhaenyra's sons are trueborn Velaryons, (3) consider to side with Rhaenyra in a coming struggle for the throne, or (5) actually swear fealty to a queen who they view as the murderess of their son.

This could fly only if you view Rhaenys and Corlys as feeble-minded morons who don't give a shit about their son being murdered and House Velaryon being fucked over by a woman who cuckolded her husband before she murdered him.

If Robb cannot let the Lannisters get away with the execution of Ned, if the Martells are honor-bound to avenge Elia, her children, and eventually also (kind of) Oberyn, if Viserys III and Daenerys must plan to avenge the wrongs to their family, if the attainted Starks have to retake Winterfell and the North eventually and avenge themselves on their enemies, etc. ... then there is no chance that the elder branch of House Targaryen - and that's what the Princess Rhaenys Targaryen is - can just ignore what her daughter-in-law did to her son and her family.

Vaemond's position would the position of Rhaenys and Corlys - that Rhaenyra's filthy bastards get no way near the lordship of Driftmark.

And we must also keep in mind that Corlys is rich as hell ... he has the means to send scores of Faceless Men after Rhaenyra and Daemon if he wanted to ensure the king and the general public do not realize that Rhaenyra and Daemon were murdered.

This is a bad plot in the book already - but there it can be glossed over if we assume Mushroom is Mushroom and the claim that Daemon arranged Laenor's murder nonsense. In the show - where Rhaenys and Corlys both believe their son was murdered by Rhaenyra and Daemon - it gets much worse.

In fact, the Velaryons siding with Rhaenyra in the show makes as much as sense Loras and the Tyrells siding with Stannis despite the fact that he knew or very much believed that Renly was murdered by Stannis.

Of course, the plot demands that they declare for Rhaenyra ... so it would have fallen to the show writers to make that plot work. But they failed at that ... and rather spectacularly.

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@Lord Varys No, "cuckolding" Laenor is certainly not worse than taking out Aemond's eye, especially since Rhaenys and Corlys have been well aware all this time that Laenor is gay, and likely has no interest in having sex with Rhaenyra.

As for murdering him, you assume that Rhaenys is certain Rhaenyra had Leanor murdered. This is just a suspicion though, and Rhaenyra did swear to Rhaenys that she had nothing to do with it. Did Rhaenys believe her? I don't know- maybe.

No, Rhaenys can't just as well marry Baela and/or Rhaena to Vaemond or his sons, or to Alicent's sons, because that would require the other side to show interest in such a match. And none of them have. Unlike Rhaenyra, who made that offer.

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6 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

@Lord Varys No, "cuckolding" Laenor is certainly not worse than taking out Aemond's eye, especially since Rhaenys and Corlys have been well aware all this time that Laenor is gay, and likely has no interest in having sex with Rhaenyra.

The issue is that they believe Laenor was murdered by Rhaenyra and Daemon. In light of that they would likely revisit how Laenor was treated by Rhaenyra. What was a working agreement earlier would now likely be viewed as the most heinous deception and betrayal.

I mean, how would you view your own daughter-in-law if you assumed she may have arranged the death of your son so she could make and be with your widowed son-in-law? The only proper reaction to that is disgust.

6 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

As for murdering him, you assume that Rhaenys is certain Rhaenyra had Leanor murdered. This is just a suspicion though, and Rhaenyra did swear to Rhaenys that she had nothing to do with it. Did Rhaenys believe her? I don't know- maybe.

Rhaenyra does swear this ... six years after the alleged murder took place and when she is in a very precarious position herself. And she wants the support of Rhaenys in her own struggle there.

It seems clear that Rhaenys doesn't really believe her ... which is part of the reason this thing sucks. If she had actually believed her and told the audience and Rhaenyra so, her later actions would make more sense.

There was an opportunity to establish this in episodes 8 and 10. Especially when Corlys says in episode 10 that 'they killed our son' Rhaenys could have said 'No! I don't believe that!'

But she didn't. The message the show clearly sends is that Rhaenys (and Corlys, to a lesser degree) don't give a fig about Laenor's murder and end up supporting the woman they think had him murdered for the basest of motives (to fuck and marry her uncle) because they think she would make a fine queen.

That is truly as ridiculous as it sounds. And this is only the case because the writers fucked it up. They could have avoided all that by simply not having Corlys and Rhaenys believe Rhaenyra and Daemon murdered their son.

6 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

No, Rhaenys can't just as well marry Baela and/or Rhaena to Vaemond or his sons, or to Alicent's sons, because that would require the other side to show interest in such a match. And none of them have. Unlike Rhaenyra, who made that offer.

Six years passed between Laenor's death and episode 8. Obviously a realistic depiction of the aftermath of Laenor's death and the conclusion that Rhaenyra/Daemon were (likely) behind it is a complete breakdown of their relationship, a change in the Driftmark succession, and a possible public denouncement of Rhaenyra's sons as Strong bastards.

If Baela for some reason ends up as Rhaenys' ward then Rhaenys (and Corlys) could offer her hand in marriage to anyone of their choice. That they don't is quite odd considering her age and the fact that Luke as heir to Driftmark not betrothed to any of Laena's daughters means Rhaenyra will get away with both cuckolding and murdering Laenor.

And, of course, Rhaenys and Baela should be on Vaemond's side in the bastard issue - perhaps not in the issue as to who the new heir of Driftmark should be ... but as I said, this could have been settled by a marriage.

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30 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

@Lord Varys "If Baela for some reason ends up as Rhaenys' ward then Rhaenys (and Corlys) could offer her hand in marriage to anyone of their choice."
How would that help with the Driftmark succession?

Because six years ago, when Laenor was apparently murdered and Baela became, for some reason, Rhaenys' ward, the Velaryons could have denounced Rhaenyra's sons as bastards to name Baela heir in Luke's stead.

To sweeten the pie they could have either married her to Vaemond or one of his sons ... or they could have offered her hand to one of Alicent's sons.

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Because six years ago, when Laenor was apparently murdered and Baela became, for some reason, Rhaenys' ward, the Velaryons could have denounced Rhaenyra's sons as bastards to name Baela heir in Luke's stead.

 

That would have been considered treason, as King Viserys I had proclaimed multiple times. They would've either been executed, have their tongues ripped out (the king's threat) or would have had to start a civil war/open rebellion against the King himself and hope for the best. Their best hope would have been that the Green faction would be on their side, but that's a stretch - planning to make Aegon the king after Viserys' death is different from starting a rebellion against the King, is less likely to be supported by Viserys' children, Alicent or even Otto, who's more cautious than that, and the Velaryons would probably not get  many supporters in the realm.

Seems like a probably suicidal move.

Quote

To sweeten the pie they could have either married her to Vaemond or one of his sons ... or they could have offered her hand to one of Alicent's sons.

Marrying her to Vaemond or his sons wouldn't get them any allies outside of the Velayon family and generally does nothing except ensure peace between thesenior and junior branch of the Velaryon family.

Offering her hand to one of Alicent's sons  (well probably Daeron, since I can't imagine Aemond being happy with the idea of marrying Baela or Rhaena considering his past with them, and that match sounds like a disaster) as a way to make an alliance with them, runs into the same problem I just outlined above. Even if it happened, there is no reason to think the Greens would want to start a rebellion against Viserys himself.

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3 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

That would have been considered treason, as King Viserys I had proclaimed multiple times. They would've either been executed, have their tongues ripped out (the king's threat) or would have had to start a civil war/open rebellion against the King himself and hope for the best. Their best hope would have been that the Green faction would be on their side, but that's a stretch - planning to make Aegon the king after Viserys' death is different from starting a rebellion against the King, is less likely to be supported by Viserys' children, Alicent or even Otto, who's more cautious than that, and the Velaryons would probably not get  many supporters in the realm.

If Corlys and Rhaenys had added their voice to Alicent, they could have forced through a trial. Alicent's only arguments were 'the children don't look like Laenor' ... Corlys and Rhaenys could have provided actual testimony confirming Alicent's theory. Laenor could have told them that they weren't his seed - or they could have claimed he did.

Viserys couldn't dismiss this easily. His wife and children he can command - Rhaenys and Corlys less so. And the next step would have been to demand the lives of Rhaenyra and Daemon, respectively, for the murder of Laenor Velaryon. This whole thing is something that could and (perhaps) should have triggered a civil war

But as Rhaenys own suggestion in episode 7 - to pass over Laenor in favor of Baela - shows, they could just as well passed over all of Rhaenyra's sons in favor of Baela without openly denouncing the boys as bastards.

The desire for vengeance would also be obvious. Why don't they murder Rhaenyra and Daemon via assassins? Luke will be avenged by Blood and Cheese, so why is there no justice for Laenor? Why don't they want justice for him if they think he was murdered by Rhaenyra and Daemon?

It doesn't make sense.

3 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

Marrying her to Vaemond or his sons wouldn't get them any allies outside of the Velayon family and generally does nothing except ensure peace between thesenior and junior branch of the Velaryon family.

Which would be what you want if you want to strengthen the Velaryon line and get rid of the Strong line of the murderer.

3 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

Offering her hand to one of Alicent's sons  (well probably Daeron, since I can't imagine Aemond being happy with the idea of marrying Baela or Rhaena considering his past with them, and that match sounds like a disaster) as a way to make an alliance with them, runs into the same problem I just outlined above. Even if it happened, there is no reason to think the Greens would want to start a rebellion against Viserys himself.

It would ensure they had the strength to take on and eventually get rid of Rhaenyra and Daemon.

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44 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

If Corlys and Rhaenys had added their voice to Alicent, they could have forced through a trial. Alicent's only arguments were 'the children don't look like Laenor' ... Corlys and Rhaenys could have provided actual testimony confirming Alicent's theory. Laenor could have told them that they weren't his seed - or they could have claimed he did.

Viserys couldn't dismiss this easily. His wife and children he can command - Rhaenys and Corlys less so. And the next step would have been to demand the lives of Rhaenyra and Daemon, respectively, for the murder of Laenor Velaryon. This whole thing is something that could and (perhaps) should have triggered a civil war

But as Rhaenys own suggestion in episode 7 - to pass over Laenor in favor of Baela - shows, they could just as well passed over all of Rhaenyra's sons in favor of Baela without openly denouncing the boys as bastards.

The desire for vengeance would also be obvious. Why don't they murder Rhaenyra and Daemon via assassins? Luke will be avenged by Blood and Cheese, so why is there no justice for Laenor? Why don't they want justice for him if they think he was murdered by Rhaenyra and Daemon?

It doesn't make sense.

Which would be what you want if you want to strengthen the Velaryon line and get rid of the Strong line of the murderer.

It would ensure they had the strength to take on and eventually get rid of Rhaenyra and Daemon.

There's nothing in what you said that supports the idea that they had the strength to do that. Viserys blatantly took Rhaenyra's side against his own son and wife even right after said son lost an eye, he sure as hell isn't going to be swayed by Rhaenys and Corlys. There's no indication that Alicent and the Greens would side with them while Viserys is alive, either. The Velaryons are simply not that strong to take the entire realm. What allies do they have in Westeros that would pick them over the king?

And you didn't just refer to Blood and Cheese as "justice"?! :bang:

I don't even want to go into the 'morality' of it, but it was also one of the stupidest thing anyone did in the Dance. You have access to Helaena and her children and, instead of taking them hostage, you organize this sadistic revenge for maximum evilz that doesn't help you even one bit in the war, and only ensures that the other side now really wants to kill you even more?

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9 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

There's nothing in what you said that supports the idea that they had the strength to do that. Viserys blatantly took Rhaenyra's side against his own son and wife even right after said son lost an eye, he sure as hell isn't going to be swayed by Rhaenys and Corlys. There's no indication that Alicent and the Greens would side with them while Viserys is alive, either. The Velaryons are simply not that strong to take the entire realm. What allies do they have in Westeros that would pick them over the king?

You do realize that this is really a sidetrack? One thing they could have tried to do if they felt like it. Revenge can be had by other less obvious, less confrontational ways as I made clear.

By not keeping Luke as heir, by gravitating towards and making a deal with the Greens during the six-year-gap, by arranging the assassination of both Rhaenyra and Daemon through the Faceless Men or other highly effective assassins, by supporting Vaemond in the Driftmark succession crisis, by not supporting Rhaenyra, ever, in her bid for the throne.

But please stop pretending those royals and nobles would not think in such categories or not consider costly and risky ways to get what they want. You do remember Doran and Oberyn's schemes to avenge Elia, right? Corlys and Rhaenys are richer than the Lannisters and Hightowers. They can destroy Viserys' kingship and Rhaenyra/Daemon without declaring open war.

9 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

And you didn't just refer to Blood and Cheese as "justice"?! :bang:

I don't even want to go into the 'morality' of it, but it was also one of the stupidest thing anyone did in the Dance. You have access to Helaena and her children and, instead of taking them hostage, you organize this sadistic revenge for maximum evilz that doesn't help you even one bit in the war, and only ensures that the other side now really wants to kill you even more?

I called it justice because that's what the people behind it apparently thought it was as per the book. I don't think the show will take that route, of course. Rhaenyra will not sign off on this, and Daemon is too smart, too disinterested in Aegon's children and Helaena, and too focused on Alicent (and Otto) who he sees as 'the murderer' of his brother to actually command something like Blood and Cheese.

But the show writers gave Mysaria her own motive to get even with Alicent when they had her have Larys burn her manse. While Mysaria will survive the assassination attempt, many of the children in her employ may have been killed. Blood and Cheese will be Mysaria's revenge in the show, not so much Daemon's or Rhaenyra's.

If Daemon reaches out to Mysaria on Rhaenyra's behalf he will likely ask her to murder Aemond to avenge Luke and to rob the Greens of their most powerful dragonrider. Perhaps Mysaria will try and fail to do that, and perhaps she will merely say she wills and then have her thugs target Helaena and Alicent's grandchildren.

The idea that we have Daemon in episode 10 complain that Rhaenys didn't torch all the Greens ... and then have his own assassins not target as many members of the Green royal family as they could really makes no sense. If he will be directly behind, if he has an active hand in the execution of the plan more Greens would die.

And I think this will be one of the better changes/adjustments in the show since it will make the Blood and Cheese episode make sense in context. It doesn't make much sense the way it is told in the book.

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@Lord Varys I'm not going to comment on what's merely yout speculation that the show will do things you think it will do. (also the idea that Mysaria can just kill Aemond or anyone else she might want s silly.)

Anyway, I can't believe I almost forgot. but why are we assuming Rhaenys has the power to betroth Baela and Rhaena to anyone against Daemon's will? As their father, he would definitely have the most authority to make those decisions.

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