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Why Aegond Didn't Limit the Reach's Power?


Corvo the Crow
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Aegon has freshly conquered Westeros, Has granted the regions of RL, SL and Reach to new lords, even took land from RL and SL while building his crownlands, portions that are relatively big compared to their parent regions and yet didn't limit Reach's power. He may have taken some land from Reach as well but only a small amount. If the Gardeners were still ruling, I'd understand but he gave it to the Stewards Tyrell, it's like Sauron conquering the ME and deciding to give Minas Tirith and all the lands of Gondors to the stewards from House of Hurin, leaving a powerful opposition in the future.

At the very least he should've given the Reach owned Dornish Marches to Orys to strengthen him and weaken Reach, or perhaps make the Marchers answer directly to the crown due to their importance at the time.

Edited by Corvo the Crow
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He had no reason or pretext to strip the Reach of its own lands, unlike the Ironborn the reachmen weren't invading or occupying any other kingdom at the time and had surrendered to him. 

Besides he had no reason to believe that the numbers of men the Reach could produce were anything house Targaryen and their dragons couldn't handle. And the Reach has four other kingdoms that forced it to be constantly on its borders that force it to be on its guards and limit its capacity to send its men elsewhere.

And the Tyrells owed him their position as rulers of the Reach, and couldn't afford to turn against him.

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But he should have done it anyway if only so the crownlands weren't reliant on the reach for so much, make the marches part of the crownlands, you could half the reach and they'd still be the most powerful kingdom, the Hightowers and Redwynes are more powerful than some of the other kingdoms

Then Robert could give it to Renly and give Stannis the SL

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12 minutes ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

He had no reason or pretext to strip the Reach of its own lands, unlike the Ironborn the reachmen weren't invading or occupying any other kingdom at the time and had surrendered to him.

I'm sure he could have come up with something. Could have said something like 'The Kingdom of the Gardeners is extinct with their line'.

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1 minute ago, Craving Peaches said:

I'm sure he could have come up with something. Could have said something like 'The Kingdom of the Gardeners is extinct with their line'.

But there are dozens of lines descending from him, even the Reach Red Mountains houses are descendants or related in some way to the Gardeners. 

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Also if I were Aegon I would have taken Argillac's offer and married Argella. Argillac was old and only had Argella. It would have been a good opportunity to gain land peacefully. Second son could inherit the Stormlands. I would put the Crownlands somewhere else, and make sure all the vassal kingdoms were of equal strength. That way you couldn't have a scenario where the Reach has an army double/triple the size of everyone else. Balance of power should be maintained.

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2 minutes ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

But there are dozens of lines descending from him, even the Reach Red Mountains houses are descendants or related in some way to the Gardeners. 

Yes but they are just descendents. And I'm sure they'd rather be Lord Paramount of their own region then a subordinate lord to the Tyrells, who were seen as upjumped stewards.

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11 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Yes but they are just descendents. And I'm sure they'd rather be Lord Paramount of their own region then a subordinate lord to the Tyrells, who were seen as upjumped stewards.

What region would they be Lords Paramount of since they don't have their own region ?

Which was another reason for Aegon to make the Tyrells the new ruling house, knowing that it would only make them more reliant on him and limit their power since they can't count in the obedience and loyalty of many of their vassals.

Edited by Terrorthatflapsinthenight9
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He should have granted Oldtown, Lannisport and the other big cities a city charter that granted them increased autonomy from their lord paramount.

Moreover, as we don't actually see a big inter-regional cultural variation or strong intra-region identity (part for Dorne), there was actually no reason for him not to go anti-trust and break some kingdoms into two. e.g., granting the Hightowers Oldtown and subjugating most of the Western Reach to them. Making the Rowans lord paramount of the new region of the Northern Reach and South Westlands. Granting all of the southern part of the Vale to the Royce's etc. etc.

 

I believe the Taragaryens deliberately increased the powers of big bannermen like the Blackwoods, Daynes and Hightowers to balance the power of lords paramount, but it seems too little of an effort. and indeed after 250 years the different lords paramount regained their strength and that ushered the downfall of the dynasty by Robert who was the first rebel to have the full backing of several regions and not only a coalition of minor lords

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2 hours ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

What region would they be Lords Paramount of since they don't have their own region ?

The Reach would be divided into several new regions.

All marches would go to the Stormlands.

Oldtown and surrounding area would be own region. And maybe two more regions from the Reach would be created.

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He kind of did, by making the former stewards lords paramount, while there were many other, far more prominent houses. That meant that unity and effective leadership would be hampered. And it kind of worked. In historical conflicts, the Reach along with the Riverlands are the kingdoms most often divided. 

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Except the Riverlands was like that before and the Reach isn't divided enough because even a third of it is enough to tip the balance

two Reach lords could fight the whole of the Crownlands, in fact the Redwynes by themselves are enough to beat the Iron Islands and the Hightowers did several of the other Kingdoms at one point

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When did the Tyrells ever seriously threaten Targaryen rule? If anything, the problems came from the Hightowers, so keeping Highgarden powerful in order to try to ensure it can keep Oldtown in line makes sense.

When the Targaryens were overthrown, it was the Stormlands that did it.

Even if this was a mistake on paper, nothing of consequence came from it, so it's hard to call it one.

Edited by Adelstein
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Aegon was so lazy, he makes Robert look diligent.

He took advantage that only he, had dragons and that the Ironborn were hated by the Riverlods, builty his force with a quickly easy victory and took the moment to conquer the rest of the realm taking advantage that the Lannister king at the time was also a idiot. The only ones that put up any real resistence were the Dornish and they kicked him out.

After the conquest he did not do anything, barely sired an heir, did not even tried to unify taxes or laws, the heir he raised was weak and incapable, and it seems that Visenya was more responsible for the realm working.

I doubt he even thought of the power he gave the Tyrells were too much, he ignored houses with more prestige and better claims over Highgarden than the Tyrells.

The Reach before Mace seems to be barely functional for what we see. During the Dance they were heavily split and during the Blackfyre rebellion it was also divided with some houses supporting both sides.

Edited by Arthur Peres
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28 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

Aegon was so lazy, he makes Robert look diligent.

He took advantage that only he, had dragons and that the Ironborn were hated by the Riverlods, builty his force with a quickly easy victory and took the moment to conquer the rest of the realm taking advantage that the Lannister king at the time was also a idiot. The only ones that put up any real resistence were the Dornish and they kicked him out.

 

The Reach and the Stormlands put up a fight. But once you've seen your entire royal family and half your mates roasted, as at the Field of Fire, and the biggest castle on the continent melted to slag, cutting your losses and bending the knee seems sensible. Dorne pursued a scorched earth policy, on the basis that while Aegon could perhaps take Dorne he couldn't hold it. But when you pursue a scorched earth policy, everyone loses. You might remain free, but you'll be living in a wasteland. That's a high price to pay.

The North and (after the Field of Fire) the Reach took the view that it was better to live on their knees than die on their feet and to be honest I don't blame them.

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