Better Call Saul Finale

[SeanF]

This thread in Reddit sums up just why I felt so underwhelmed by the ending.  

Jimmy's end was wretched, it was out of character for him to embrace it, Chuck ought not to have been vindicated, and Jimmy's talking himself into a life sentence in a maximum security prison did Kim no good.

[Spockydog]

Love this. Gilligan shit the bed. The ending of BCS was utter bullshit. 

And that scene on the prison bus... LOL.

 

[Spockydog]

I suspect that, in the coming fifty years, this show is going to be lumped in with the likes of Game of Thrones, Dexter, St Elsewhere, and all the other well regarded TV shows that somehow managed to completely screw up the ending.

One thing for sure, ain't nobody ever going to be comparing Better Call Saul to M*A*S*H, or The Shield, or Six Feet Under, or anything else that totally stuck the landing.

[Rippounet]

It wasn't great, but I think it was difficult to do much better.

Ultimately, both Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul remain moral shows, i.e. they want to retain a form of moral "lesson" for the viewer. The big idea throughout, is that you can only get away with so much, and that if you keep pressing your luck, you will pay a high price for it. The shows were pretty much written for the viewer to expect the main character(s) to either repent or pay.

Better Call Saul continued the themes of Breaking Bad, but with slightly more relatable characters. I think Walter White was a poster-child for toxic masculinity (especially when paired with Hank), but Jimmy was a more nuanced character, with a lot of empathy for others - at least at first, and I think at least up to the 5th season.

The problem for the writers is precisely that they created a character that was, all in all, smarter than he was proud, definitely not cruel or crazy, which meant that "realistically", he should have either known when to pull out of "the game" or devised a better escape plan than what we saw (definitely leaving the US imho). Walter wanted the wealth (and power) that he felt was his due. Jimmy otoh was always after recognition and affection (like any decent human being), and while he could indulge in vanity, did not seem to relish dominating others. In fact, he didn't even humiliate without purpose (I believe it was really Kim who sought revenge on Howard). And while Breaking Bad showed (in graphic detail) the consequences of Walt's actions, they didn't quite do this as well with Jimmy, which meant the viewer was ready to see him get away with everything he'd done (perhaps even wanted him to get away with it).

Point is, in order for Jimmy to repent and accept punishment (for the show to have a moreal ending), he needed a good reason. The answer they chose was Kim: that in the end, Jimmy could possibly live without wealth and recognition, but he couldn't live without someone's affection, and for him that someone was Kim. And so they made him basically commit suicide for her to provide a form of moral redemption.

It's all a bit artificial/forced is the problem. Jimmy's cruelty in season 6 feels slightly out of character to begin with imho, as his pride finally overcomes his intelligence. His desperate need for Kim's affection is also surprising (after 6 years?). And him turning against her before shooting himself in the foot is rather difficult to buy (Just to see her at the audience? That's just plain dumb).

Could they have done something else? Dunno. They chose a kind of "poetic ending," which did fit Jimmy. The message is that he didn't want her to view him as a monster, but the execution seems a bit flawed. I do think they could have achieved the same thing with slightly better, more consistent writing.
And FFS, those last few episodes were way too long.

On a personal note, what I truly dislike is the "slippery slope" idea they came up with in the end, which seems to directly contradict everything they'd carefully built in both shows.

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, Rippounet said:

It wasn't great, but I think it was difficult to do much better.

Ultimately, both Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul remain moral shows, i.e. they want to retain a form of moral "lesson" for the viewer. The big idea throughout, is that you can only get away with so much, and that if you keep pressing your luck, you will pay a high price for it. The shows were pretty much written for the viewer to expect the main character(s) to either repent or pay.

Better Call Saul continued the themes of Breaking Bad, but with slightly more relatable characters. I think Walter White was a poster-child for toxic masculinity (especially when paired with Hank), but Jimmy was a more nuanced character, with a lot of empathy for others - at least at first, and I think at least up to the 5th season.

The problem for the writers is precisely that they created a character that was, all in all, smarter than he was proud, definitely not cruel or crazy, which meant that "realistically", he should have either known when to pull out of "the game" or devised a better escape plan than what we saw (definitely leaving the US imho). Walter wanted the wealth (and power) that he felt was his due. Jimmy otoh was always after recognition and affection (like any decent human being), and while he could indulge in vanity, did not seem to relish dominating others. In fact, he didn't even humiliate without purpose (I believe it was really Kim who sought revenge on Howard). And while Breaking Bad showed (in graphic detail) the consequences of Walt's actions, they didn't quite do this as well with Jimmy, which meant the viewer was ready to see him get away with everything he'd done (perhaps even wanted him to get away with it).

Point is, in order for Jimmy to repent and accept punishment (for the show to have a moreal ending), he needed a good reason. The answer they chose was Kim: that in the end, Jimmy could possibly live without wealth and recognition, but he couldn't live without someone's affection, and for him that someone was Kim. And so they made him basically commit suicide for her to provide a form of moral redemption.

It's all a bit artificial/forced is the problem. Jimmy's cruelty in season 6 feels slightly out of character to begin with imho, as his pride finally overcomes his intelligence. His desperate need for Kim's affection is also surprising (after 6 years?). And him turning against her before shooting himself in the foot is rather difficult to buy (Just to see her at the audience? That's just plain dumb).

Could they have done something else? Dunno. They chose a kind of "poetic ending," which did fit Jimmy. The message is that he didn't want her to view him as a monster, but the execution seems a bit flawed. I do think they could have achieved the same thing with slightly better, more consistent writing.
And FFS, those last few episodes were way too long.

On a personal note, what I truly dislike is the "slippery slope" idea they came up with in the end, which seems to directly contradict everything they'd carefully built in both shows.

Where it could work is if Saul finds out that an innocent person  is facing a huge prison sentence, for crimes that Saul himself committed.  In that instance, turning himself in would be an act of redemption.  He's confessing to his crimes, and accepting the consequences, in order to spare a guiltless person from having to do so.

But, here, Saul is just throwing his life away for nothing.

[Cas Stark]

It was good not great, certainly not bad on a Dexter or GOT level and I can't see 'future generations' deciding to hate the ending.  It was too OTT, and tried to have things both ways.  They wanted to see Saul punished, as others aid, the VG universe is moral and people pay for their misdeeds one way or the other.  They  also had much affection for the character and wanted to give Jimmy some kind of 'happy' or hopeful ending, and that is a very difficult needle to thread.  If he doesn't go to jail for more than a few years, he's not punished.  If he goes to jail for 86 years, never getting out, then yes, he threw his life away for nothing, because he's not getting out and so he can never reunite with Kim, which she would not do anyway after the Howard scam.

[Aemon Stark]

I loved the ending and it felt true to the character. Dexter and GOT are another matter, though the latter if anything can be said about Dexter it's that it should have ended a few seasons earlier - the sequel series did not help in the end. 

[Ran]

Yeah, still works for me too.

[WarGalley]

Having recently finished the last season, I generally tend to agree with the OP. I'm curious for those who watched the show in real-time, where was the break between 6a and 6b? Or rather, which episode was the mid-season finale? Having been able to binge it all in one go, the entire post-Lalo storyline where we return to the present timeline was a bit deflating though nothing was really going to beat the climax of Point and Shoot. Also, the return to the con-of-the-day episodes certainly pays homage to the series as a whole (much like Walt macguyver-ing the machine gun in the trunk of the car) so I didn't mind it too much.

But Jimmy being able to shave the years off and then sacrificing himself for no tangible gain felt out of character to me in my very first reaction. It didn't make sense for the reasons already stipulated above. I just didn't feel the transition to redemption personally even if that's what they were going for. Instead of sacrificing himself, maybe Jimmy does get his years shaved down to 7 (which even then I don't believe as it's his word alone as a now known con man). They could have done a better job where Jimmy's tragic loss is never having a life with Kim again which they sort of pulled off but probably could have been done better with some more time spent on Rhea Seehorn (who was practically non-existent in the 2nd half of the season).

I think a lot of my impression is because Point and Shoot was such a strong episode that happened so early, it was going to be tough to top it with a transition to what is essentially a new storyline in 4 episodes. 

[RumHam]

1 hour ago, WarGalley said:

Having recently finished the last season, I generally tend to agree with the OP. I'm curious for those who watched the show in real-time, where was the break between 6a and 6b? Or rather, which episode was the mid-season finale?

Episode seven was the mid season finale.

Spoiler

So Howard's death. 

 

[dbunting]

I thought Jimmy sacrificed himself for love. IMO he did what he did only because Kim came forward and went on record about her involvement. It was only after hearing that information that Jimmy flipped his tone.  He came clean because he wanted Kim to respect him more than anything in the world. That and he loved bragging about what he did. To me the ending worked, except for the stupid bus scene.

[Dragon in the North]

I liked this show, but I didn’t love it, particularly after Chuck died. Even with my tempered expectations, that finale was pretty bad. The court scene, which was arguably what the entire series was building towards, fell completely flat for me.

[SeanF]

4 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

I liked this show, but I didn’t love it, particularly after Chuck died. Even with my tempered expectations, that finale was pretty bad. The court scene, which was arguably what the entire series was building towards, fell completely flat for me.

It may sound like picking nits, but no serious judge would wish to listen to Jimmy indicting himself for crimes and sins that he had never been charged with.

[Cas Stark]

Chuck was always going to be right about Jimmy, because we already saw what he became--someone who suggested shanking Badger and putting Jesse out of his 'misery'.  

[SeanF]

5 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

Chuck was always going to be right about Jimmy, because we already saw what he became--someone who suggested shanking Badger and putting Jesse out of his 'misery'.  

Chuck himself was a bitter, jealous, self-righteous man who did his best to ruin his brother’s life.

He never forgave Jimmy for the fact that his mother loved him more than she did Chuck.

[Cas Stark]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

Chuck himself was a bitter, jealous, self-righteous man who did his best to ruin his brother’s life.

He never forgave Jimmy for the fact that his mother loved him more than she did Chuck.

Yes, to the first part and the last part, but I don't see how he tried to ruin Jimmy's life.  According to Chuck, with no dissent from Jimmy, he spent years bailing him out of various scams and arrests, watching how he used his charm to harm others and used his dissembling ability to never hold himself to account for any of it.  Over and over.  We, the audience saw him do this over and over as well.  Just because Chuck was an inflexible, unlikeable asshole doesn't mean he was wrong.

[Le Cygne]

On 11/4/2022 at 9:07 AM, SeanF said:

This thread in Reddit sums up just why I felt so underwhelmed by the ending.  

Jimmy's end was wretched, it was out of character for him to embrace it, Chuck ought not to have been vindicated, and Jimmy's talking himself into a life sentence in a maximum security prison did Kim no good.

Good thread.

7 years would have been appropriate for his part, and that he didn't take it seems to be the thing that bothers many viewers. Prison is hell, I'd have rather seen him die than rot in jail (and realistically, he would have, too).

If it's a love story, well, Kim definitely would have stopped him from rambling in that courtroom. The judge would have, too, he was acting like a nut. There was nothing profound about it, it was more like insanity.

Like someone said on that thread, it was so unrealistic, it was unjust. The drug cartel terrified him much of the time, telling him there's no way out. When you are hogtied in the desert facing your grave, you say things.

Basically the tone was off from the rest of the show; comedy was a thread running through the show. Jimmy was so out of character in season 6, they all were. The season felt contrived to force a faux moralistic ending.

(Just to add, Vince Gilligan didn't write the ending, he said it was Peter Gould's baby. Gilligan was no longer showrunner after season 3. Gilligan helped again in season 6, but said he was just another staff writer.)