The Division of the Dornish Marches

[Canon Claude]

Just to recap, the Dornish Marches are a highly contested area where three different regions meet. The Reach, Stormlands, and Dorne all claim territory, and we’re told that the marcher lords spent centuries battling the Dornish raiders coming up from the south. Most of the marcher lords (Caron, Dondarrion, Selmy, and Swann) are in the Stormlands, but it seems like House Peake and House Tarly are also marcher lords in their own right.

But as much as we hear of the marcher lords fighting the Dornish, I’m kind of surprised that there’s no mention at all of the marcher lords fighting each other.

The Reach and the Stormlands have definitely fought each other many times over the centuries. Given the proximity of such powerful and warlike houses in two different regions, you’d think they’d have been at each other’s throats just as often as they were fighting the Dornish.

[James Steller]

We do hear about some fighting, though. Look up the Dornish Marches on the wiki. 

Plus, I think GRRM wanted to focus on the sharp cultural differences of Dorne as opposed to its neighbours. The Reach and the Stormlands don't like each other, necessarily, but they've also frequently been allies against these people that they've othered and despised for centuries. 

[Canon Claude]

36 minutes ago, James Steller said:

 

Plus, I think GRRM wanted to focus on the sharp cultural differences of Dorne as opposed to its neighbours. The Reach and the Stormlands don't like each other, necessarily, but they've also frequently been allies against these people that they've othered and despised for centuries. 

But that doesn’t work. For one thing, the Reach and the Stormlands only ever became allies after they’d been conquered by the Targaryens. And for that matter, the Dornish Marches are populated by rock Dornishmen, who are the most alike to the rest of Westeros. There’s no racial difference to be pointed out.

[direpupy]

1 hour ago, Canon Claude said:

But that doesn’t work. For one thing, the Reach and the Stormlands only ever became allies after they’d been conquered by the Targaryens. And for that matter, the Dornish Marches are populated by rock Dornishmen, who are the most alike to the rest of Westeros. There’s no racial difference to be pointed out.

No racial difference but a very strong cultural one. Also the Dornish raids would be a factor, the Reach and the Stormlands fought each other in wars which would include raids, but the Dornish would raid even outside of war and that would have made them the focus of resentment among the Marcher Lords.

[Floki of the Ironborn]

8 hours ago, direpupy said:

No racial difference but a very strong cultural one. Also the Dornish raids would be a factor, the Reach and the Stormlands fought each other in wars which would include raids, but the Dornish would raid even outside of war and that would have made them the focus of resentment among the Marcher Lords.

Come to think of it, were the Dornish still raiding the Marches after they joined the Seven Kingdoms? It seems like that would warrant some serious repercussions if they did. But then if the raids haven't been happening for years, have the Marcher Lords become less martial?

[Jon Fossoway]

1 hour ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

Come to think of it, were the Dornish still raiding the Marches after they joined the Seven Kingdoms? It seems like that would warrant some serious repercussions if they did. But then if the raids haven't been happening for years, have the Marcher Lords become less martial?

For some reason GRRM has been keping the marcher lords apart from the main conflict but on a more subtle level, most combatants, lords and men-at-arms coming from that region hold solid martial reputation during the main saga. And even tough they are nominally considered part either of the stormlands or the Reach, they have their own thing going: marcher culture.

[Canon Claude]

1 hour ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

Come to think of it, were the Dornish still raiding the Marches after they joined the Seven Kingdoms? It seems like that would warrant some serious repercussions if they did. But then if the raids haven't been happening for years, have the Marcher Lords become less martial?

I mean, isn’t it obvious? Barristan Selmy’s a mighty warrior, but all the younger guys aren’t up to par. Bryce Caron was killed by a random one-eyed knight with zero rep. Beric Dondarrion got killed six times.
 

30 minutes ago, Jon Fossoway said:

For some reason GRRM has been keping the marcher lords apart from the main conflict but on a more subtle level, most combatants, lords and men-at-arms coming from that region hold solid martial reputation during the main saga. And even tough they are nominally considered part either of the stormlands or the Reach, they have their own thing going: marcher culture.

The marchers haven’t been held back. House Caron’s forces were spent at Blackwater and up north, same with House Selmy. The Dondarrions are apparently leaderless and the Swanns reserved themselves, but they’ve also been fully involved in the wars going on through the individual members of their houses.

[Ran]

Beric died twice to the Mountain, once to Strongboar, and once to the Hound -- he basically met great fighters, and on one of those occasions it was an ambush. Once he was hanged by Lorch after voluntarily giving himself up. Can't recall what the other death was, but in any case, it's pretty clear he became kind of reckless, presumably in hopes that the next death would be his last. Yet he held his own against the Hound (with the help of fire, admittedly), so he was pretty good. 

Balon Swann is considered an exceptional young knight, a skilled archer, a good jouster and swordsman, and even better with a mace. He fought briliantly at the Blackwater.

Marchers still seem to have a strong tradition with the longbow, with Fletch Dick and Anguy both hailing from there.