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The Dragon, North Star, Northern Dawn, and musing on Jon and Dany.


AlaskanSandman

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The Dragon constellation is found by the little dipper which bears the North Star known as Polaris. The North Star is unmoving and thus a guide in the dark of night. 

Evidence for Jon as a dragon? Evidence that the first dragons were from the North?

The Bloodstone Emperor worshiped a star that had fallen to earth, while Azor Ahai forged a sword from said star that was a weapon against the others, presumable used by the Last Hero in the North, who may have been Brandon the Builder, the founder of House Stark.

 

Yet, House Stark is no more on the male side since the days of Bael, King beyond the Wall. Who kidnapped a Stark maiden after leaving a Winter Rose behind. (Bael is old english for Pyre, which is fire).

 

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A Clash of Kings - Jon VI

"Bael had brought her back?"
"No. They had been in Winterfell all the time, hiding with the dead beneath the castle. The maid loved Bael so dearly she bore him a son, the song says . . . though if truth be told, all the maids love Bael in them songs he wrote. Be that as it may, what's certain is that Bael left the child in payment for the rose he'd plucked unasked, and that the boy grew to be the next Lord Stark. So there it is—you have Bael's blood in you, same as me."
"It never happened," Jon said.

 

 

The female side is from one of the many houses of the North, like the Dustins. 

Next curiosity is that the Targaryens have lost their dragons and most of their Valyrian blood by the time of Rhaegar, who himself couldn't hatch dragons either. 

 

If Daenerys is the child of the Mad King and Rhaella, and Jon the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna. Then why are they so special? They shouldn't be at all. Nothing about their parentage is special other than the fact that Rhaegar and his family have retained the silver hair and purple eyes. 

Why would Dany be able to hatch dragons then? Merely because Miri Maz Dur helped her? If Miri could hatch dragons, then why not do it on her own?

If Jon is a Targaryen and a Stark or Flint technically. Then why is he so special? 

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House Flint of the mountains is the formal name given to the mountain clan of the Flints of the north who inhabit the high mountains north of the wolfswood.[2] They like to be called the First Flints since House Flint of Widow's Watch and House Flint of Flint's Finger are cadet branches of the family.[3] Its chief is known as "The Flint", although at Winterfell the treatment of "Lord Flint" is used.

 

 

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A Storm of Swords - Jon I

But what does it matter, for all men must die,
and I've tasted the Dornishman's wife!"
As the last strains of "The Dornishman's Wife" faded, the bald earless man glanced up from his map and scowled ferociously at Rattleshirt and Ygritte, with Jon between them. "What's this?" he said. "A crow?"
"The black bastard what gutted Orell," said Rattleshirt, "and a bloody warg as well."
"You were to kill them all."
"This one come over," explained Ygritte. "He slew Qhorin Halfhand with his own hand."
"This boy?" The earless man was angered by the news. "The Halfhand should have been mine. Do you have a name, crow?"
"Jon Snow, Your Grace." He wondered whether he was expected to bend the knee as well.
"Your Grace?" The earless man looked at the big white-bearded one. "You see. He takes me for a king."
The bearded man laughed so hard he sprayed bits of chicken everywhere. He rubbed the grease from his mouth with the back of a huge hand. "A blind boy, must be. Who ever heard of a king without ears? Why, his crown would fall straight down to his neck! Har!" He grinned at Jon, wiping his fingers clean on his breeches. "Close your beak, crow. Spin yourself around, might be you'd find who you're looking for."
Jon turned.

The singer rose to his feet. "I'm Mance Rayder," he said as he put aside the lute. "And you are Ned Stark's bastard, the Snow of Winterfell."

Stunned, Jon stood speechless for a moment, before he recovered enough to say, "How . . . how could you know . . ."

"That's a tale for later," said Mance Rayder. "How did you like the song, lad?"

"Well enough. I'd heard it before."

"But what does it matter, for all men must die," the King-beyond-the-Wall said lightly, "and I've tasted the Dornishman's wife. Tell me, does my Lord of Bones speak truly? Did you slay my old friend the Halfhand?"

 

 

Jon has this weird interaction with Mance Rayder, in which the song Mance was playing has ended soon as Jon enters the tent. They discuss somethings for a min, then Jon is introduced to the Real King Beyond the Wall. Who calls Jon for what he is, Neds son and a Stark.

To this, Jon is surprised and asked how Mance could know, to which curiously say's its a tale for later, and then asks Jon how he liked the song. The song Jon only heard the last part of as he entered the tent. 

To which Mance repeats the last section, lightly. "And i've tasted the Dornishman's wife".

this is a strange interaction and strange that Mance would repeat the line lightly, after Jon already showed disinterest in the song. Even though Jon just asked how Mance could know who he was. 
Could this be Mance giving Jon a clue?

 

Lyanna was engaged to Robert Baratheon who is a marcher lord. The Marches are a part of Dorne. Making Lyanna the Dornishman's wife of sorts. A very interesting section from Storm of Swords. Then there is this.

 

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A Storm of Swords - Jon II

"I don't go in at all," he said firmly, just before he heard Tormund Thunderfist bellowing for him (he hadn't, but never mind).
The wildlings seemed to think Ygritte a great beauty because of her hair; red hair was rare among the free folk, and those who had it were said to be kissed by fire, which was supposed to be lucky. Lucky it might be, and red it certainly was, but Ygritte's hair was such a tangle that Jon was tempted to ask her if she only brushed it at the changing of the seasons.

 

 

 

Another interesting thing about Mance compared to Bael, is that if Jon were the son of Mance. Then that would mean that Jon faced his father at the Wall and killed him (Rattle Shirt really but to the world it was Mance), same as what happened to Bael with his son. Bael, kissed by fire? Pyre?

Who was the Black Brother at Harrenhal. Who could it have been?

There was a mysterious knight that showed up at the Tourney too with a giant white tree painted on him. The Knight of the Laughing Tree. 

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Whitetree

Could this be Mance Rayder and a sign of where he was born? Fathered by a black brother. Could this be Qorgyle who appears to show him special treatment. Allowing some ranger to travel south of the Wall with him to Winterfell for some reason? Why? Benjen goes to Winterfell for the Kings feast for some reason, perhaps since he is Ned's brother, he gets favoritism?

Either way, Rangers are apparently not restricted to just being North of the Wall. Even if they are not a wandering crow. Benjen isn't a wandering crow, and yet came back to the Wall with a new recruits. Though Yoren was with them. Did Benjen really need to go if Yoren was already there?? Who cares who is King and what their feast is?

The case for Mance is not so easily dismissible.  Jon's plot is pretty well tied up in his chapters if Lyanna and Mance are his parents. Foreshadowed through Bael, Jon would die at the hands of a Bolton (Pink Letter, Ramsey Bolton).

 

Then there is Daenerys, with the Dayne-Heiress homophone in her name. 

The case for Ashara Dayne being her mother is a lot stronger Imo than Rhaella, who was old and already having multiple failed births. The case for Ashara as her mother and tied to the Lemon Trees and the Red door is so strong I wont mention it all here.

What I will question, is who is her father. Rhaegar, or Eddard.

Rhaegar has diminished blood that really wouldn't add much, especially since their was already a Targaryen and Dayne marriage with Maekar to Dyanna Dayne. Their children didn't hatch dragons either.

Where as Eddard has the wildling blood of Bael (pyre) in him. Could it be that Dany is actually part Stark? The Seed is Strong. Strong is the meaning of the word Stark in German. Rhaenys' strong children didn't survive to the throne, only her child by Daemon. 

The Dragon Constellation is found in the North near the North Star called Polaris. Knowing this, and everything we know about Azor Ahai, The Bloodstone Emperor, House Dayne, The Last Hero, and Bael the Bard. Shouldn't we be looking to the North for the birth of Dragons? Mance Rayder and Eddard Stark.

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A Game of Thrones - Catelyn I

"Beyond the Wall?" The thought made Catelyn shudder.

Ned saw the dread on her face. "Mance Rayder is nothing for us to fear."

"There are darker things beyond the Wall." She glanced behind her at the heart tree, the pale bark and red eyes, watching, listening, thinking its long slow thoughts.

 

 

Rhaegar was a married man. Would Lyanna steal another womans husband? The woman said to be just like Arya Stark? "Love is sweet but it cannot change a man". Why would her love for Rhaegar make him any more faithful to her than to his wife? This is how she feels about Robert. Why would Rhaegar behaving this same way be any more impressive to her?

Rhaegar hung around Jon Connington and was known to not really be into his wife, and also never visited brothels. Very pious? or could Rhaegar be gay? The marriage was required because he needed an heir, doesn't mean he was in love or even fancied women.

 

Would it be weird if Aegon was real, and the only surviving Targaryen left in the world. Facing off against a Stark with Dragons?

Varys did come to Westeros before Rhaegar even married Elia Martell. How could Varys have contrived a plan to get Rhaegar to marry Elia, and for them to have a male kid that Varys could swap out for a "Blackfyre baby"??? Is he a magician as Ilyrio claims?

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A Game of Thrones - Eddard XV

"Wine," a voice answered. It was not the rat-faced man; this gaoler was stouter, shorter, though he wore the same leather half cape and spiked steel cap. "Drink, Lord Eddard." He thrust a wineskin into Ned's hands.

The voice was strangely familiar, yet it took Ned Stark a moment to place it. "Varys?" he said groggily when it came. He touched the man's face. "I'm not … not dreaming this. You're here." The eunuch's plump cheeks were covered with a dark stubble of beard. Ned felt the coarse hair with his fingers. Varys had transformed himself into a grizzled turnkey, reeking of sweat and sour wine. "How did you … what sort of magician are you?"

"A thirsty one," Varys said. "Drink, my lord."

 


 

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A Game of Thrones - Arya III

"The gods alone know," the first voice said. Arya could see a wisp of grey smoke drifting up off the torch, writhing like a snake as it rose. "The fools tried to kill his son, and what's worse, they made a mummer's farce of it. He's not a man to put that aside. I warn you, the wolf and lion will soon be at each other's throats, whether we will it or no."

"Too soon, too soon," the voice with the accent complained. "What good is war now? We are not ready. Delay."

"As well bid me stop time. Do you take me for a wizard?"

The other chuckled. "No less." Flames licked at the cold air. The tall shadows were almost on top of her. An instant later the man holding the torch climbed into her sight, his companion beside him. Arya crept back away from the well, dropped to her stomach, and flattened herself against the wall. She held her breath as the men reached the top of the steps.

 

 

Another constellation clue? The Hunter Orion is accompanied by two hounds, one of which has the Morning Star Sirius in it, known as the Dog Star.

 

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A Clash of Kings - Bran III

"Was there one who was best of all?"

"The finest knight I ever saw was Ser Arthur Dayne, who fought with a blade called Dawn, forged from the heart of a fallen star. They called him the Sword of the Morning, and he would have killed me but for Howland Reed." Father had gotten sad then, and he would say no more. Bran wished he had asked him what he meant.

 

 

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A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys III

"When I went to the Hall of a Thousand Thrones to beg the Pureborn for your life, I said that you were no more than a child," Xaro went on, "but Egon Emeros the Exquisite rose and said, 'She is a foolish child, mad and heedless and too dangerous to live.' When your dragons were small they were a wonder. Grown, they are death and devastation, a flaming sword above the world." He wiped away the tears. "I should have slain you in Qarth."

 

 

 

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I hear you,

but what about the prophecy that Rhaegar was sooo obsessed with that a woods witch said would be born to the line of Aerys and Rhaella?

Firstly, the prophecy that Rhaegar is so obsessed with, likely has nothing to do with Targaryens, as the Prince that was Promised/Azor Ahai reborn, is a prophecy that seems much older than the Targaryens and something known in Ashai and by Melisandre. 

 

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A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys IV

"Your grandsire commanded it. A woods witch had told him that the prince was promised would be born of their line."
"A woods witch?" Dany was astonished.
"She came to court with Jenny of Oldstones. A stunted thing, grotesque to look upon. A dwarf, most people said, though dear to Lady Jenny, who always claimed that she was one of the children of the forest."

 

 
 
This was when Aegon V was still alive, before the tragedy of Summerhal.
 
So, for all we know, this was never true, and merely something meant to drive Aegon further into his obsession. An obsession that got him killed along with much of his family. 
 
Why the woods witch thinks this or claims this, is something we do not know. Just that she makes this claim, that is unsupported by the Prophesied Prince aspect. So since the prophecy it self doesn't state this, and she likely doesn't have a library of old books that she is quoting, its likely something the woods witch made up or saw in a vision. Visions as we know are not to be trusted.
 
 
 
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This sounds like something Lucifer means lightbringer would propose.  It is an interesting idea to read.  Here are my reactions to your theories.

Aegon is a Blackfyre.  George Martin has invested so much in that story that this branch of the family will appear.  Aegon is as good as any option.  Better, actually.  He has the backings of the Golden Company, a known haven for the Blackfyres.  He is a lie which must be addressed.  There is no lie if he is the real deal.  It is a monstrous lie if he isn't.  The lie is a monster which must be slain by Dany when she reveals her identity.  

Mance Rayder and Lyanna Stark are the most probable parents of Jon Snow.  The Black brother at the tourney was Mance.  The Dornishman's wife is a clue that Mance has been going in and out of Winterfell.  And doing the in-and-out with a Stark girl apparently!  He is fixated with the crypts.  Again a clue to his role as the new Bael.  Bael, the bard, who leaves blue roses for the Starks as if to compensate them for the family daughter.  The Starks have a very peculiar look and that could explain how Mance recognized Jon.  Could but it's not the answer.  The answer, Mance has been in and out of Winterfell, watching the Starks.  Or watching a particular Stark.  A Stark who could be his son from a woman he had loved.  The Targaryens and the Starks are not the only ones who believe in prophecy.  The Wildlings do too.  Mance wanted to join his seed to the Starks for some inexplicable reason.  Or maybe he just wanted to sleep with Lyanna.  Rhaegar's song brought Lyanna to tears because it reminded her of her lover, Mance.  The man whom she could never have because of who he is and who she is.  

Daenerys is the child of three.  She comes from House Targaryen and the direct descendant of Visenya, Rhaenys, and Aegon.  She has to be the daughter of Aerys and Rhaella because she fulfilled the prophecies of AA and the prince that was promised.  The wood's witch declared that this special being is to be the result of two Targaryens in union.  This being will do what Princess Rhaenys and Queen Rhaenyra were never able to do.  Rule Westeros.  Rhaenyra ruled for a short period of time, that is true.  But she was not able to hold her rule.  Dany is also the third Daenerys.  The Targaryen who will do what her two brothers could not, rule Westeros.  There is the three again.  It cannot be overstated how special it is to be able to hatch dragons from stone.  It wasn't the magic of Mirri Maz Duur.  The old witch burned while Daenerys was unharmed by the flames.  Targaryen + Targaryen was one of the needed conditions to bring the promised prince back to life.  That is Aerys and Rhaella.  

The Daynes have their own story and we will get some time with them.  This Ned Dayne will be special too.  A fracture within the family will happen and he will get the sword over Gerold.  

The Wildlings are important because they will soon be the people of the North.  Jon, as the son of Mance, should inherit his rule.  Though the Wildlings are said to only value strength over heredity.  But what if Jon should be brought back to life.  A walking Undead with holes in his body that doesn't seem to stop him will be seen as a being of great power.  Like him or not, the Wildlings will fear him and they won't have any choice but to follow him if he should threaten to unleash the wights on them.  

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1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Rhaegar, who himself couldn't hatch dragons either. 

When did Rhaegar try to do this?

1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

If Jon is a Targaryen and a Stark or Flint technically. Then why is he so special? 

Because it's the union of Stark and Targaryen bloodlines, which hasn't happened before. Fire and ice coming together.

As for Daenerys, she is one of the candidates for the Prince that was Promised based on her being the daughter of Aerys and Rhaella.

1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Lyanna was engaged to Robert Baratheon who is a marcher lord. The Marches are a part of Dorne.

Robert was lord of Storm's End, not a marcher lord. And the marches are not part of Dorne. They are there to defend against Dornish attacks.

1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Rhaegar has diminished blood that really wouldn't add much,

Someone has calculated Rhaegar's (very high) inbreeding coefficient, so I disagree that he some how has 'diminished blood'. If his blood was so 'diminished', why would he retain the Valyrian features?

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9 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

When did Rhaegar try to do this?

Because it's the union of Stark and Targaryen bloodlines, which hasn't happened before. Fire and ice coming together.

As for Daenerys, she is one of the candidates for the Prince that was Promised based on her being the daughter of Aerys and Rhaella.

Robert was lord of Storm's End, not a marcher lord. And the marches are not part of Dorne. They are there to defend against Dornish attacks.

Someone has calculated Rhaegar's (very high) inbreeding coefficient, so I disagree that he some how has 'diminished blood'. If his blood was so 'diminished', why would he retain the Valyrian features.

Except Martin already said Rhaegar's blood was diminished and like 1/16th Targaryen compared to Aegon the conqueror. Who ever did their calculations may need to relearn their maths. If you marry out side your family and then inbreed, your still passing around that Half blood. Not replenishing it or fixing it. Then there were more outside marriages, followed by more inbreeding. Rhaegar's blood is pretty diminished. He's easily 1/8th the blood of Aegon Ist.

Not counting Velaryon marriages, we have an Arryn putting it at 1/2, Dayne putting it at 1/4th,  Rogare at 1/8th, Martell 1/16th, and Blackwood at 1/32nd Targaryen.

 

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27 minutes ago, Rondo said:

She has to be the daughter of Aerys and Rhaella because she fulfilled the prophecies of AA and the prince that was promised.

This alone is hardly proof that she is a Targaryen, just that between her and Mirri Maz Dur, they some how hatched and bonded the dragons to Dany's blood, whose ever blood she is carrying.

It appears to be a new dragon line, as stated above, Aerys and Rhaella, along with Rhaegar, have highly diminished blood. Too many outside marriages that never produced dragon hatchers. If Dany's blood was special, then so should Rhaegars, Rhaella's, Aerys, and Viserys. Allll of them should have been able to hatch dragon eggs, and there are definitely dragon eggs still around. Dany got her 3 presumably from the ones stolen before the Dance and taken to Essos. There are those from Summerhal though that would've been collected from the ruins. There were 7 of them, and though we do not hear about them, its safe to assume that the Targaryen's still had them.

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3 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Except Martin already said Rhaegar's blood was diminished and like 1/16th Targaryen compared to Aegon the conqueror.

Where did he say this?

4 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Who ever did their calculations may need to relearn their maths.

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/wgsnj0/just_how_inbred_is_rhaegar_spoilers_extended/

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/game-of-thrones-family-tree/amp

So yes, Rhaegar was very inbred. He may only share whatever portion of Aegon I's blood, but that doesn't mean his blood is 'diminished'. He is more Targaryen then the famously inbred Charles II was Habsburg.

And so what if his blood is 'diminished' compared to Aegon's? I doubt the books are trying to encourage blood purity. It's actually healthy that he wasn't as inbred as his ancestors.

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1 minute ago, Craving Peaches said:

Where did he say this?

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/wgsnj0/just_how_inbred_is_rhaegar_spoilers_extended/

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/game-of-thrones-family-tree/amp

So yes, Rhaegar was very inbred. He may only share whatever portion of Aegon I's blood, but that doesn't mean his blood is 'diminished'. He is more Targaryen then the famously inbred Charles II was Habsburg.

And so what if his blood is 'diminished' compared to Aegon's? I doubt the books are trying to encourage blood purity. It's actually healthy that he wasn't as inbred as his ancestors.

Well firstly, one can still have diminished blood from their source, and still be highly inbred. As explained, wedding an Arryn makes your blood 1/2. In breeding after that only makes your blood 1/2 still. Having further outside marriages thus diminishes the blood further, as in the case of Rogare, or the other houses. In breeding the generation after an outside marriage does nothing to fix the diminished blood, all it does is make you further inbred and prone to mutations.

Im not looking up where martin said it, its in the so spake martin section and been known for a while and talked about on the board before.

It has nothing to do with the books promoting blood purity to us readers.... and yes, it would've been healthier for Aegon to have fresh genetic stock. Yet, if you only have dragons through this blood, then diminishing it, would diminish your link to the dragons.  The Targaryens were inbreeding to try to keep the blood pure to keep dragons likely, but gave it up and lost the dragons. They may have even given it up due to the madness infecting them through the incest. They were having some pretty deformed births after all. It may have frightened some of them who were less power hungry than say, Maegor.

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32 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

When did Rhaegar try to do this?

First of all, Summerhal was to celebrate the birth of Rhaegar. So literally, Rhaegar was used to try to hatch dragon eggs, whether by proxy to them like how they used to put eggs in the cribs with Targaryens, or they were going to sacrifice Rhaegar to hatch them (possibly to how Daenerys and Mirri were able to, using the souls of Viserys, Drogo, and her son. Only death can pay for life, after all)

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55 minutes ago, Rondo said:

Rhaegar's song brought Lyanna to tears because it reminded her of her lover, Mance.  The man whom she could never have because of who he is and who she is.  

That is actually something I never considered, and is a very good reason. Then you have Mance showing up at the Tourney after this to crown her, but stepping aside for Aegon on the promise he would pass along the winter rose, with Lyanna knowing its meaning and connection to the King Beyond the Wall.

 

The thing between Mance and Rhaegar I suspect to be connected to the issue of slavers going north of the Wall and past the stepstones that the Targaryens have historically loosely fought over, the most recent being during Aerys time. The Hardhome incident was likely a slaver raid imo. 

This would connect many of the loose plot threads together.

I still think Ashara is the mom of Dany but I know people have their own thoughts.

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29 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Reread this, and what I said, and youll see they don't disagree. He is merely comparing how alike Rhaegar, Viserys, and Daenerys are in relation to Aerys and Rhaella. This has absolutely nothing to do with how diluted their Targaryen blood is from Aegon the Conqueror. 

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1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

Robert was lord of Storm's End, not a marcher lord. And the marches are not part of Dorne. They are there to defend against Dornish attacks.

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Marcher lords[1] or marcher lords[2] are lords of the stormlands and the Reach who live within the Dornish Marches.

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Marcher_lords

The hundreds of leagues of the marches consist of grassland, moors, and plains, with a portion of the Red Mountains to the east.[9] The highlands of the marches have a cold climate.

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Dornish_Marches

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Red_Mountains

 

 

Yes, Robert was a Marcher Lord, and the Marches extend into the Red Mountains, which are a part of Dorne.

Further more, ancient Dorne likely encompassed the Storm lands before Durrandon seized them. I think there was a passage on this even but id have to find it. Either way, Robert is a Marcher Lord whose Marches extend into Dorne. 

 

Robert the Marcher Lord of the "Dornish Marches" having his "Wife to be" kissed by Mance, would be the most logical conclusion of Mance's insinuation to Jon and why Mance bothered to repeat a line to a song Jon already said he didn't care about, long after the song had already ended.

 

Edit- Keep in mind that Robert is lord of Storms end and thus ruler of all the Storm Lands, including the parts that the Dornish Marches extend into, even though his castle isn't directly located in the Marches. Its a technicality and play on words by Martin

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1 hour ago, Rondo said:

Rhaegar's song brought Lyanna to tears

It is worth pointing out though that Rhaegar may have been simply singing a sad song. It may have been the context and story of the song that moved her to tears, not Rhaegar himself.

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A Clash of Kings - Catelyn VII

"I keep remembering the Stark words. Winter has come, Father. For me. For me. Robb must fight the Greyjoys now as well as the Lannisters, and for what? For a gold hat and an iron chair? Surely the land has bled enough. I want my girls back, I want Robb to lay down his sword and pick some homely daughter of Walder Frey to make him happy and give him sons. I want Bran and Rickon back, I want . . ." Catelyn hung her head. "I want," she said once more, and then her words were gone.
After a time the candle guttered and went out. Moonlight slanted between the slats of the shutters, laying pale silvery bars across her father's face. She could hear the soft whisper of his labored breathing, the endless rush of waters, the faint chords of some love song drifting up from the yard, so sad and sweet. "I loved a maid as red as autumn," Rymund sang, "with sunset in her hair." 
 
 
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A Clash of Kings - Sansa VI

"It's what I said that ought concern you." Cersei's eyes narrowed. "Your brother will do as he's told, or I'll see to it that he leads the next sortie himself, and you'll go with him."
After the meal had been cleared away, many of the guests asked leave to go to the sept. Cersei graciously granted their request. Lady Tanda and her daughters were among those who fled. For those who remained, a singer was brought forth to fill the hall with the sweet music of the high harp. He sang of Jonquil and Florian, of Prince Aemon the Dragonknight and his love for his brother's queen, of Nymeria's ten thousand ships. They were beautiful songs, but terribly sad. Several of the women began to weep, and Sansa felt her own eyes growing moist.
 
 
People have made over much about Lyanna crying to Rhaegar singing, when likley, he was singing a sad song about Jenny of Old Stones, which was close to his heart. As she died at Summerhal, where Rhaegar even spends a lot of time.
Lyanna likely didn't care about Rhaegar at all.
 
 
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1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

If his blood was so 'diminished', why would he retain the Valyrian features?

Ok, so check out a genetic punnett square and mendelian genetics. It is very easy for something like this to happen. Where you breed out certain features and keep others. You could breed out the Dragon gene and keep the silver hair and purple eyes simply by a dragon having kids with a non Targaryen. Have enough kids, one of those kids is bound to not have the dragon gene as much, but still have the silver hair and purple eyes. His kid goes on and has kids and repeats this process. Each time, weeding out the dragon gene with each generation, while retaining the silver hair and purple eyes.

This is done with plants and animals all the time.

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1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

First of all, Summerhal was to celebrate the birth of Rhaegar. So literally, Rhaegar was used to try to hatch dragon eggs, whether by proxy to them like how they used to put eggs in the cribs with Targaryens, or they were going to sacrifice Rhaegar to hatch them (possibly to how Daenerys and Mirri were able to, using the souls of Viserys, Drogo, and her son. Only death can pay for life, after all)

Where is it stated or implied Rhaegar himself tried to hatch dragons? That is not the same as him being used to hatch dragons. And the fact that dragons didn't hatch isn't proof that Rhaegar had 'diminished' blood, since he wasn't sacrificed in the first place. If he was sacrificed but the eggs still didn't hatch then maybe.

Robert rules over the marcher lords but he himself is not a marcher lord. Claiming he is really requires stretching the definition of the word and goes against what is said in the text. Even if he was a marcher lord, the marcher lords are not Dornish, they are enemies of the Dornish. Trying to claim the song Mance sings is about Lyanna is really stretching things in my view and requires being very selective and twisting the meanings of words, just so they fit the theory.

Light hair and eyes (especially purple eyes) tend to be recessive so the fact that the Targaryens maintain light hair and purple eyes suggests that they were, in fact, retaining recessive genes such as the dragon riding one.

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1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Im not looking up where martin said it, its in the so spake martin section and been known for a while and talked about on the board before.

If anyone else has this source I would be very grateful. I would really like to read where GRRM said that Rhaegar had 'diminished' blood. Obviously he's not going to maintain all of Aegon's genetic material. But the idea of his blood being 'diminished'...

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Mance Rayder is the parallel to Rhaegar Targaryen. Rhaegar is Fire-Lite and Mance is Ice-Lite.  Mance got his wish. King Beyond the Wall and fathered a son on Lyanna. Rhaegar failed. He never became king and there is a small possibility that Aegon and Rhaenys were fathered by another man. There may be more going on between JC and Rhaegar. Mance sized up Rhaegar at Harrenhal and did the same to Robert at Winterfell.  I have long proposed that Jon is the son of Mance.  I also think Aerys fathered a child with Ashara.  An illegitimate child who might inherit Dawn. Maybe this is Aegon. His age cannot be precisely determined but surely older than Dany. Lemore is Ashara. She cannot reveal her real name. Eddard Stark knew the truth. 
 

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8 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Where is it stated or implied Rhaegar himself tried to hatch dragons? That is not the same as him being used to hatch dragons. And the fact that dragons didn't hatch isn't proof that Rhaegar had 'diminished' blood, since he wasn't sacrificed in the first place. If he was sacrificed but the eggs still didn't hatch then maybe.

Robert rules over the marcher lords but he himself is not a marcher lord. Claiming he is really requires stretching the definition of the word and goes against what is said in the text. Even if he was a marcher lord, the marcher lords are not Dornish, they are enemies of the Dornish. Trying to claim the song Mance sings is about Lyanna is really stretching things in my view and requires being very selective and twisting the meanings of words, just so they fit the theory.

Light hair and eyes (especially purple eyes) tend to be recessive so the fact that the Targaryens maintain light hair and purple eyes suggests that they were, in fact, retaining recessive genes such as the dragon riding one.

No, I think you're stretching stuff to make it fit that she is special.

Im not sure what would diminish there blood in your definition but i get the sense nothing would, cause itd counter your theory.

I sent you all the links on the Dornish Marches with quotes from the page even, so think what you want :)

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8 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

If anyone else has this source I would be very grateful. I would really like to read where GRRM said that Rhaegar had 'diminished' blood. Obviously he's not going to maintain all of Aegon's genetic material. But the idea of his blood being 'diminished'...

Lol I mean, if the math doesn't convince you, nothing probably will. You can't have that many marriages outside of incest and expect no new Dna to dilute your DNA. Sorry

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