Queen Alysanne's actions cost the kingdom dearly

[Tyrosh Lannister]

In 58 AC, she visits the nights watch and tries to fly her dragon beyond the wall and fails each time. The dragon refuses to go. There might be some magic embedded within the wall to prevent creatures of fire or fire elementals like dragons to pass. Same might be true for the Others (ice creatures).

Anyway, next year there is a harsh winter which comes with a disease called the shivers. It takes away her daughter. I believe its a magical disease. Targaryens are immune to common diseases that affect common men - the pox, bloodly flux, brownleg, wormbone, sourgut, etc. But they arent immune to magical ones like greyscale or the spring sickness or shivers.

My theory is, the shivers was sent to westeros because a fire creature tried to pass the wall. This was a breach of contract. The disease was sent as a punishment. 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Tyrosh Lannister

[Craving Peaches]

16 minutes ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

Targaryens are immune to common diseases that affect common men - the pox

Daeron died of a pox though.

[Tyrosh Lannister]

13 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Daeron died of a pox though.

reputedly 

[StarkTullies]

39 minutes ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

Targaryens are immune to common diseases that affect common men - the pox, bloodly flux, brownleg, wormbone, sourgut, etc.

I don't think they are.  They think they are, and they think they are closer to gods than men... but they aren't.

Fire & Blood tells us many things relevant to the current story.  We learn where Dany's dragon eggs (probably) came from.  We learn that even though Targaryens think they are "exceptional" and only Valyrians can ride dragons, Nettles proves that not to be true.  We learn that even though Targaryens think they are "exceptional" and they never get sick, Princess Daenerys (Jaehaerys and Alysanne's daughter) proves that not to be true.

Maybe Daenerys (current story, final written chapter) is sick from eating poisoned berries, but I think she has the bloody flux.

[Tyrosh Lannister]

2 minutes ago, StarkTullies said:

I don't think they are.  They think they are, and they think they are closer to gods than men... but they aren't.

Fire & Blood tells us many things relevant to the current story.  We learn where Dany's dragon eggs (probably) came from.  We learn that even though Targaryens think they are "exceptional" and only Valyrians can ride dragons, Nettles proves that not to be true.  We learn that even though Targaryens think they are "exceptional" and they never get sick, Princess Daenerys (Jaehaerys and Alysanne's daughter) proves that not to be true.

Maybe Daenerys (current story, final written chapter) is sick from eating poisoned berries, but I think she has the bloody flux.

Daenerys has dysentry. Nettles was dragonseed

[Craving Peaches]

13 minutes ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

Daenerys has dysentry.

Yes, and that's a 'common' disease. All the other freemen are suffering from it too...

[StarkTullies]

24 minutes ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

Daenerys has dysentry. Nettles was dragonseed

As Craving Peaches said, whatever illness Daenerys has is still an illness.  She has the symptoms of the bloody flux.  I think she has the bloody flux, but obviously I don't know (and the story will never confirm, unless George Martin himself speaks up).  Claiming she ate poisoned berries would have been a better argument that Daenerys is immune to disease.

Nettles could be dragonseed, but there is no evidence of that.  And if anybody with one great^x grandparent of Valyrian ancestry can ride dragons (and be immune to illness), there is nothing special about Targaryens at all.  We could imagine that most of Essos has some sort of Valyrian ancestry.

Keep in mind that Daenerys is less than 5% Valyrian.  Just because her parents were Targaryen siblings, and their parents before that were Targaryen siblings, doesn't make her 100% Valyrian.  Grandpa Jaehaerys was half Blackwood.  And his father Aegon was half Dayne.  That takes her down to 25% Valyrian... but then you have a Martell and Rogare: 6.25% Valyrian.  Add Aemma Arryn into the mix (only half Valyrian), and that brings Daenerys to ~4.7% Valyrian blood.  So even if Valyrians were fully immune to disease (the first Princess Daenerys proves they aren't), I'm not sure how much of that 5% bloodline is really going to help Daenerys out.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

Targaryens aren't immune to diseases, that's just a myth, which Jaehaerys and Alysanne found to be wrong the hard way, and Daenerys recently too.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Terrorthatflapsinthenight9

[Ran]

51 minutes ago, StarkTullies said:

, Nettles proves that not to be true.

That's not really true. Nettles may have Valyrian blood through a past dragonseed, ultimately making her descended of a Targaryen. There are some who even argue that she's actually Daemon Targaryen's daughter (I don't think the timeline works at all). 

[Craving Peaches]

Valyrians/Targaryens being immune to disease, and being better than 'lesser men', is just propaganda imparted to Daenerys by Viserys. As we see multiple times in the book, they suffer from diseases, both mental and physical, just like everyone else.

[Craving Peaches]

2 minutes ago, Ran said:

That's not really true. Nettles may have Valyrian blood through a past dragonseed, ultimately making her descended of a Targaryen. There are some who even argue that she's actually Daemon Targaryen's daughter (I don't think the timeline works at all). 

I think the Nettles situation is ambiguous but they way she tames the dragon doesn't seem to rely on Valyrian blood. Potentially anyone could replicate it. Whether Valyrian blood is required to actually ride the Dragon hasn't been confirmed (I don't think, correct me if I'm wrong). Unless we know for certain that Nettles either was or wasn't related to a dragonseed, there doesn't appear to be a way to tell.

[Ran]

2 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

they way she tames the dragon doesn't seem to rely on Valyrian blood.

"Seems" is a good word, because it allows for the possibility that in fact no amount of dangling sheep in front of Sheepstealer would have worked if she did not have Valyrian descent.

We genuinely don't know, and I don't think Nettles should be presented as evidence.

Besides that, Sheepstealer was an adult dragon who had had no human contact at all. Even a dragonlord might have needed to do extra work to bond with the dragon. Again, we don't know.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

If Targaryens and other Valyrians aren't immune against mental diseases then how can they be immune to the rest ?

[Tyrosh Lannister]

1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

Yes, and that's a 'common' disease. All the other freemen are suffering from it too...

To be fair , what percent of Danys blood is pure valyrian ? Compared to Alysanne , the latter has more Valyrian blood. 

[Aldarion]

7 hours ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

If Targaryens and other Valyrians aren't immune against mental diseases then how can they be immune to the rest ?

Because mental diseases are different in nature from other diseases (and even "other" diseases are different in nature from each other - you have infectious, degenerative, etc. diseases), so that doesn't fly.

Also, while general Targaryen immunity to disease is clearly BS, could a dragon-bonded Targaryen be immune / resistant to greyscale, considering disease's apparent magical nature?

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

47 minutes ago, Aldarion said:

Because mental diseases are different in nature from other diseases (and even "other" diseases are different in nature from each other - you have infectious, degenerative, etc. diseases), so that doesn't fly.

Also, while general Targaryen immunity to disease is clearly BS, could a dragon-bonded Targaryen be immune / resistant to greyscale, considering disease's apparent magical nature?

Valyrians are known to have died to greyscale during the Second Spice War after the Rhoynar supposedly cursed them and caused the disease, and have avoided the Sorrows ever since, so surely not. 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Terrorthatflapsinthenight9

[Aldarion]

51 minutes ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

Valyrians are known to have died to greyscale during the Second Spice War after the Rhoynar supposedly cursed them and caused the disease, and have avoided the Sorrows ever since, so surely not. 

Unless we know whether there were any dragonriders among the dead, it does not answer my question. I never suggested that ordinary Valyrians are immune to greyscale, just that dragonriders might be, due to magical properties of dragons themselves.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

8 minutes ago, Aldarion said:

Unless we know whether there were any dragonriders among the dead, it does not answer my question. I never suggested that ordinary Valyrians are immune to greyscale, just that dragonriders might be, due to magical properties of dragons themselves.

There's no reason why being a dragonrider would be immune to magic, especially if it's another kind of magic than Valyrian's. And if even the dragonlords avoided the Sorrows it's surely for good reasons. 

[Craving Peaches]

11 minutes ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

There's no reason why being a dragonrider would be immune to magic, especially if it's another kind of magic than Valyrian's.

I could see them maybe having resistance to fire magic but I would suspect that Garin's curse would be especially potent against dragonlords given how the whole thing came about and what the intention was.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

2 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I could see them maybe having resistance to fire magic but I would suspect that Garin's curse would be especially potent against dragonlords given how the whole thing came about and what the intention was.

If it said valyrians then dragonriders were indeed most certainely amongst the casualties. Plus Rhoynish's magic was water magic, the exact opposite of the Valyrian and dragons' own magic.