White Lotus Season 2 (spoilers)

[Heartofice]

2 hours ago, Datepalm said:

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I actually quite enjoyed the two couples breaking down and throwing out all the simmering resentments in full cringe awkward  'haha did I say that jk lol but also yeah I did' sex farce. Ethan has resented Cameron for years, Harper is not getting what she needs (literally) in that marriage and that seems to be a pattern for Ethan, etc, etc. Just have an orgy, you're all thinking it.

Ah, the Nephew - I guess there's an irony that Portia and Albie both ended up with people who are some description of sex worker?

Albie and Portia - I can't stand them, but they do draw out some thread of privileged, idealistic, yet hopelessly waffling and self-absorbed California Gen Z kids that I'm surrounded by (ok, the ones I teach are not that bad, but also I am old now, (to make anyone who remembers me on this forum as a teenager feel really old.)) so there's a little bit of satisfaction in seeing the show eviscerate them. I think they're probably the characters getting the shortest shrift, maybe even including the Billionaire lady who is painted as dumb and tedious as a brick, yes, but also as genuinely miserable, while the kids are just annoying and their unhappiness is also annoying.

Totally agree, if you couple Albie and Portia with the two girls from season one, the writers must have a real problem with Gen Z kids! I do find it rather refreshing to really see that sort of self absorbed, self righteous energy given the spotlight and allowed to show itself up. I don't think the show sets out to make Portia look entitled but she has come to an incredible location for free, just has to look after a weird old lady for a bit. Her moaning about it seems pretty weak.

2 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

This was an interesting episode though somewhat overhyped. The number of headlines about the “shocking twist/scene/episode” fell so flat that I actually checked if there was a newer episode I missed with the alleged shocking aspect. Oh well, media, I suppose. 

I guess I was lucky enough not to see any promo material so wasn't aware there was a 'twist'. You could see it all coming a mile away, even if the exact details might keep you guessing. It's a bit strange the show sets itself up wit these mysteries and they don't really have too much bearing. Who died in the beginning of season one was not really the point, and I kind of think it won't be the point here either. 

I now watch the show because it's gloriously soapy and engaging, it's not a mystery and this season doesn't have too much depth in terms of its themes, even if I see them playing out in a very enjoyable fashion.

[RhaenysBee]

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

the writers must have a real problem with Gen Z kids! I do find it rather refreshing to really see that sort of self absorbed, self righteous energy given the spotlight and allowed to show itself up.

Yep, I live for this in the White Lotus, it’s a breath of fresh air. 

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

It's a bit strange the show sets itself up wit these mysteries and they don't really have too much bearing. Who died in the beginning of season one was not really the point, and I kind of think it won't be the point here either. 

Yep, there headlines about this too. frankly, I have not cared one bit who dies. Not this time and not back in season 1. It’s so not the point of the story, this isn’t a whodunnit. And I kinda have a feeling they deliberately spoil the climax so you don’t focus so much on oh how is it gonna end and have the room to think about the road to that end and the characters taking it. But somehow the media picks up on these quasi mysteries a lot, as if the audience’s only drive to watch a series could/should be to open a mystery box (coughwhoissauroncough). 

[Zorral]

3 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

I have not cared one bit who dies

Just like the audience members in general, i.e. all of us, seem not to care for the immense number of people who die every day of undeserved violence, famine, disaster, etc.  That's kind of the point.  The only purpose in life most of us have is to serve our betters.  Our betters -- including the audience, i.e. us -- don't give a shyte.

 

[RhaenysBee]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

Just like the audience members in general, i.e. all of us, seem not to care for the immense number of people who die every day of undeserved violence, famine, disaster, etc.  That's kind of the point.  The only purpose in life most of us have is to serve our betters.  Our betters -- including the audience, i.e. us -- don't give a shyte.

 

I don’t think I understand. The show starts out with a mystery death scene to convey that the audience doesn’t care about death in the real world? Caring about millions of unknown deaths in the world should be a purpose of life? and what does that have to do with anybody’s betters? I would sure say that the purpose of life for most people is serving themselves, their betters, I wouldn’t say so. Maybe that’s a philosophical difference or I just really don’t get what you mean to say. 

[HexMachina]

I don't think the mystery has ever been the point of this show. Its sets up mysteries which are...not mysteries because everything is the obvious answer, and everyone acts exactly as we would expect them to.

I don't understand the dislike for Harper

[Winterfell is Burning]

19 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

 

I don't understand the dislike for Harper

She's self-righteous and hypocritical.

Mind you, she's not the worst person there by any means, but still.

[Zorral]

4 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

I would sure say that the purpose of life for most people is serving themselves, their betters

 You honestly believe your politicians, your bosses, the people who own the place at which you work truly think the purpose of your life is to serve yourself?

[Datepalm]

Eh, I like Harper. She's prickly and judgemental, which is fine by me. She's right to have called bullshit on Cameron and is bad at hiding that she doesn't like someone she...doesn't like. At the same time, she wants more from her marriage than a series of polite lies OR a dispassionate power-couple arrangement. She's perfectly personable with Daphne when they get some time together, when Daphne gets real.

[RhaenysBee]

6 hours ago, Zorral said:

 You honestly believe your politicians, your bosses, the people who own the place at which you work truly think the purpose of your life is to serve yourself?

No, what I think and said is that everybody’s purpose is to serve themselves, and like you said, nobody (including bosses and politicians) gives a shite what the other person’s purpose is.

I still don’t get the part how this ties into the show. I never got the impression that even in season one the guests treated the staff as though their purpose was to serve them. And in season 2 there’s very little interaction between the staff and the guests, which is one of my complaints actually. The way the two tiers’ stories intertwined and catalyzed each other was one of the many great aspects of the season 1 story. 

[Heartofice]

15 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

No, what I think and said is that everybody’s purpose is to serve themselves, and like you said, nobody (including bosses and politicians) gives a shite what the other person’s purpose is.

I still don’t get the part how this ties into the show. I never got the impression that even in season one the guests treated the staff as though their purpose was to serve them. And in season 2 there’s very little interaction between the staff and the guests, which is one of my complaints actually. The way the two tiers’ stories intertwined and catalyzed each other was one of the many great aspects of the season 1 story. 

In Season one there was a clear theme around how the guests actions had unintended negative effects on the workers of the hotel, but I don’t think that is what they are interested in this season

Seems this season is far more interested in sex. The only real hotel staff we spend time with is Valentina and her main arc is how she is coming to terms with her own sexuality and being manipulated and manipulating others because of it. I really enjoy her character but this might be the weakest bit of the show so far 

[RhaenysBee]

12 hours ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

She's self-righteous and hypocritical.

Mind you, she's not the worst person there by any means, but still.

And rude, judgmental, envious, selfish and has a superiority complex. If everything happens exactly the way I want it, I’ll play nice, otherwise fuck everybody including my husband. If my marriage is a turf everybody else’s marriage should be a turf too and I’m not happy as long as I don’t prove otherwise. If you are nice/honest with me first, I might grace you with the same. I’m better than you in everything but you can’t be better than me in anything. In a way she’s very much like Cameron but worse because she won’t own it. Ugh she makes my skin crawl  

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

In Season one there was a clear theme around how the guests actions had unintended negative effects on the workers of the hotel, but I don’t think that is what they are interested in this season

 

Yeah and I though unintended was a very important point. And in all cases the staff shared responsibility in the outcome. 

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Seems this season is far more interested in sex. The only real hotel staff we spend time with is Valentina and her main arc is how she is coming to terms with her own sexuality and being manipulated and manipulating others because of it. I really enjoy her character but this might be the weakest bit of the show so far 

Yes, and it’s kinda of a lost opportunity that we don’t spend as much time with the staff as we did last season and don’t have the plot lines entwine the same way. 

[Heartofice]

8 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

And rude, judgmental, envious, selfish and has a superiority complex. If everything happens exactly the way I want it, I’ll play nice, otherwise fuck everybody including my husband. If my marriage is a turf everybody else’s marriage should be a turf too and I’m not happy as long as I don’t prove otherwise. If you are nice/honest with me first, I might grace you with the same. I’m better than you in everything but you can’t be better than me in anything. In a way she’s very much like Cameron but worse because she won’t own it. Ugh she makes my skin crawl  

I don't have much of a problem with her character. She's played with a sense of defensiveness and vulnerability that makes you realise she's being a total bitch as a way to protect herself, I actually think it's a very clever performance. But then she always is good.
 

[RhaenysBee]

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

I don't have much of a problem with her character. She's played with a sense of defensiveness and vulnerability that makes you realise she's being a total bitch as a way to protect herself, I actually think it's a very clever performance. But then she always is good.
 

Oh she is played very well I absolute agree with that. Aubrey Plaza delivers such a convincing and nuanced performance. Harper is just all the things  combined that gets under my skin in human personalities (including my own). 

[Zorral]

14 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

I never got the impression that even in season one the guests treated the staff as though their purpose was to serve them.

That's ... puzzling, particularly wrt Tanya and Belinda?

[RhaenysBee]

10 hours ago, Zorral said:

That's ... puzzling, particularly wrt Tanya and Belinda?

Yes, particularly. Tanya put the idea of starting her own business into Belinda’s head. That’s hardly a signifier of someone looking at the other person as predestined to serve them. The fact that Belinda was a caring, human focused and pretty subservient person who continuously went out of her way to do stuff for her guests beyond what her job description would require was a character flow in her, which had nothing to do with Tanya. This was very much supported by the fact that she stayed late to listen to whatshername’s problems about her career and marriage. And the fact that Tanya was incredibly self absorbed and helping Belinda was a self help project (rather than an outward gesture for Belinda herself) and quickly abandoned when a more rewarding self-help project came along was her character flow. It had to do with her not with Belinda’s station or Tanya’s perception of Belinda. 

Also, this train of thought gets a bit tricky since the show is set in the hospitality industry in which, like it or not, serving guests is the job of the staff and being served by them is a fair expectation of any guest. That’s not to be mixed up with any person’s life purpose however. I provide a service to my clients as well and my job is to make them happy and solve their problems. In turn when I pay for a service I damn well expect people working that job to make me happy and solve my problems as well. Does that mean I get up every day thinking about how I can serve someone other than myself? No. Do I expect others to wake up thinking about serving anyone other than themselves? No. Our jobs are not our lives and I personally don’t think the show made any advances to show that any character thinks so.  but you know, we all read our experiences and perception of the world into the story and see that between the lines. The same thing can mean a lot of different things for different people. I don’t get this parallel, but it doesn’t mean someone else doesn’t understand it. 

[Gaston de Foix]

I avoided this thread for a week and a half because I was on vacation and not caught up, and now I am :).  Alright, so here are my thoughts: 

Spoiler

- It was obvious to anyone English that Quentin the posh italophile and Jack the bit of rough were unrelated.  My initial instinct was that the "gays" were a honeytrap set up by Greg to get Tanya to cheat on him thereby voiding their prenup.  But this twist has me doubting that assumption.  

- The Ethan-Harper-Cameron-Daphne quandrangle is difficult to watch, but also underwhelming and predictable.  First, because Harper is vengefully punishing Ethan for a minor transgression at best.  Cameron is loving it, and more than willing to try to act on his mimetic desire.  The only thing that seems to save it is the show's repeated demonstration that Cameron and Daphne are "in love" even with the mutual infidelity.  Again strong echoes of Tom and Daisy Buchanan.  Re Cameron making a move on Harper: Who said, everything is about sex except for sex, which is about power?

- I agree with the posters who think that the whole "pimp" thing is an obvious set-up by Lucia to cozen Albie, who is clearly falling for it, and get herself a ticket to LA as his "girlfriend". 

- Valentina proves herself just as "cunt-struck" as the vast majority of the male hetero characters. The slow evolution of Mia's character in the show has been one of the highlights.  The shy friend is more ruthless, and more successful, in getting her way than Lucia. 

 

 

 

[Zorral]

Nobody dead yet.  One more ep to go.  There are at least four candidates.

Tanya, as at the very end of the previous, stepped out of character

 

Spoiler

expressing some concern for someone other than herself, by warning Portia that Lad was not all he seemed. i  In this ep, at the breakfast prior to what will turn into a night of disaster, she again warns Portia, but her head is immediately turned again by Hollander’s character, a pretty face, and she plunges into a coke-fueled humiliation nightmare that will not end well. And, um, where is Greg? Tanya was quite interested in that cowboy foto.

It was very hard to watch the figures in all the character threads in this one, whatever they were doing. 

Spoiler

Hope at least Valentina's expectation wasn't dashed, like it seems everyone else's are. Hope Portia is OK. 

 

[Winterfell is Burning]

Spoiler

The cowboy is Greg, or at least we're lead to suspect that. My guess it's a scam to get Tanya cheating so Greg can get a lot of money in the divorce due to infidelity,

Also, Tanya gave Portia surprisingly lucid advice before, telling her to not spend time chasing emotionally unavailable men.

 

[Zorral]

Lots of watchers are quite sure this is what's going to go down, all right.  It seems so obvious, while the actors say what will happen will be a shock.   Of course they would have to say that. 

But as the theme of The White Lotus is rich people getting away without consequences, while the less privileged dealing with the fallout -- at best -- as collateral damage or friendly fire, am not so sure.

However,

Spoiler

that Greg has been mia throughout most of the episodes, while he'd arrived to the resort earlier than Tanya does make one wonder what he's been / is up to!  I didn't think that photo looked like him, as others say, but then I don't see well.

 

[Heartofice]

Spoiler

I wasn’t sure if it was Greg in the photo, my first thought was that it was him. I tried to think what he looked like with hair.. him being in Napoleon Dynamite.. with a wig. 
 

Im almost certain this is a honey trap to get out of the pre nup, it’s all set up quite clearly now.

Plus on the other side yes I think the pimp ploy is going to rip off Albie and co.

Im not sure the theme of this season is Rich people preying on the poor, I think it is more to do with people being slaves to their own desires and those who are able to exploit it.