Arya, the Darkheart

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

1 hour ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Rafford.  That was revenge. 

Well, that hasn't happened in the main series yet but yes, lets all have a moment of silence for poor Raff, who was a victim of Dark Arya's blood thirsty revenge. Can't think of a better man for it to happen to. 

[Quoth the raven,]

On 11/9/2022 at 10:18 AM, Moiraine Sedai said:

Arya’s crimes are not shoplifting and spraying obscene graffiti. It’s not training wheels for something better. Those acts will not turn her into a better person.  Arya kills people. Not once but many times. Her arc is slowly moving towards more murders. 

It calls for stronger, harsher punishment than timeout and no supper.  Temporary blindness was her punishment for going off her script.  I wonder what the punishment will be for killing the Sweetling.  Arya will kill many more in her short life. The punishment should leave permanent damage because murder is permanent.  

EDIT: I want to soften what I said earlier.  Look, if Arya were to turn the corner now and just find a quiet life somewhere, stop murdering, I could be satisfied with her losing one eye or perhaps a hand for the murder of Dareon and the old man.  

Edited November 15, 2022 by Quoth the raven,

[Craving Peaches]

1 hour ago, Quoth the raven, said:

The punishment should leave permanent damage because murder is permanent.

I think you really ought to take into account that Arya is a traumatised child who has arguably been manipulated into carrying out these acts.

1 hour ago, Quoth the raven, said:

I could be satisfied with her losing one eye or perhaps a hand for the murder of Dareon and the old man.  

An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

[Angel Eyes]

Arya the Darkheart... does that make her of the night?

[Aline de Gavrillac]

2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Arya the Darkheart... does that make her of the night?

Arya, Bran, and Jon are of the dark night.  They will help the darkness cover the people of Westeros.    

[Angel Eyes]

2 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Arya, Bran, and Jon are of the dark night.  They will help the darkness cover the people of Westeros.    

I meant it as a reference to Darkstar.

[Sandy Clegg]

16 hours ago, Quoth the raven, said:

I wonder what the punishment will be for killing the Sweetling.  Arya will kill many more in her short life. The punishment should leave permanent damage because murder is permanent.  

In terms of plot, I think this is where Arya is headed. The Faceless Men have given her skills and powers of face-changing that are not meant to be used to 'go rogue'. It's not that they have any sense of morality, however - it's more a code of the guild. They are meant to be "impartial" in their killings, but apart from that they seem to have no qualms about who their targets are. And I feel that as Arya continues to grow in her powers, she will also start to be on thinner and thinner ice with the Faceless Men and she will receive harsher and harsher punishments perhaps. 

It makes me think that the first sentence of Arya's POV in AGOT will become more relevant:

Quote

Arya's stitches were crooked again.

If we see stitches in the sense of 'clothes' (e.g. 'I haven't a stitch to wear') then it is the clothes, or disguises, of the people she is posing as - including the face masks - that may become 'crooked' for Arya. Crooked in the sense of 'being a crook'. I think Arya's constant flouting of the Faceless Men's rules will turn her into a rogue agent of sorts. She'll start wearing faces without their permission ('crookedly') in order to complete her kill list and they will be forced to come down hard on her.

It'll be interesting to see what the 'final straw' punishment of the Faceless Men is, and whether Arya manages to wriggle out of it. But morality is not the heart of her story - not yet anyway. Her story is about taking power from the powerful and using it for a personal crusade. She's going to fuck up the system, but as we've seen the system has its ways of keeping its people in check. 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Sandy Clegg

[Nevets]

3 hours ago, Sandy Clegg said:

In terms of plot, I think this is where Arya is headed. The Faceless Men have given her skills and powers of face-changing that are not meant to be used to 'go rogue'. It's not that they have any sense of morality, however - it's more a code of the guild. They are meant to be "impartial" in their killings, but apart from that they seem to have no qualms about who their targets are. And I feel that as Arya continues to grow in her powers, she will also start to be on thinner and thinner ice with the Faceless Men and she will receive harsher and harsher punishments perhaps. 

It makes me think that the first sentence of Arya's POV in AGOT will become more relevant:

If we see stitches in the sense of 'clothes' (e.g. 'I haven't a stitch to wear') then it is the clothes, or disguises, of the people she is posing as - including the face masks - that may become 'crooked' for Arya. Crooked in the sense of 'being a crook'. I think Arya's constant flouting of the Faceless Men's rules will turn her into a rogue agent of sorts. She'll start wearing faces without their permission ('crookedly') in order to complete her kill list and they will be forced to come down hard on her.

It'll be interesting to see what the 'final straw' punishment of the Faceless Men is, and whether Arya manages to wriggle out of it. But morality is not the heart of her story - not yet anyway. Her story is about taking power from the powerful and using it for a personal crusade. She's going to fuck up the system, but as we've seen the system has its ways of keeping its people in check. 

I think Arya is already on thin ice as it is.  They seem to be slow-walking her training, which seems more suited for spying or other undercover work than assassination in any event.  I think they intend to push her out, and get a promise of future assistance as the price of leaving without consequence.  She would make a lousy assassin anyway; too much of a moral compass.  She would probably make a good spy or undercover operative though, and as a scion of a great house in Westeros, well placed to help.

[Moiraine Sedai]

Arya’s heart is dark and full of terrors. 

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

Arya's heart is dark and brings terror!

On 11/15/2022 at 12:44 PM, Quoth the raven, said:

 

EDIT: I want to soften what I said earlier.  Look, if Arya were to turn the corner now and just find a quiet life somewhere, stop murdering, I could be satisfied with her losing one eye or perhaps a hand for the murder of Dareon and the old man.  

The story appears to allow for redemption. Let us pretend to believe a hypothetical scenario of Arya stopping at Raff (that being her last murder) and then dedicating her life (maybe even giving her life) to the service of a worthy cause.  I could forgive Arya's past crimes if she puts herself in the loyal service of Daenerys and helps Daenerys take control of Westeros. 

[TheLastWolf]

18 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Arya’s heart is dark and full of terrors. 

Yawn

6 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

to the service of a worthy cause.  I could forgive Arya's past crimes if she puts herself in the loyal service of Daenerys and helps Daenerys take control of Westeros. 

Oh yeah, you recruiting Nazi pedophiles yet?

[Craving Peaches]

6 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Arya's past crimes if she puts herself in the loyal service of Daenerys and helps Daenerys take control of Westeros. 

Why would she do that? As of now, Daenerys still believes that the Starks are 'Usurper's Dogs'. And Arya would probably find Daenerys very snobby.

[Springwatch]

I think the general direction of the story is that Arya has a god-given talent for killing, and we're supposed to look ahead to the endgame monsters that only a superhero can kill. The dark path to becoming that hero is just grrm playing around with the old trope that heroes are just lovable and cool and never do anything that could be called evil. Life as a song is being thoroughly deconstructed, and then reconstructed, and then I don't know...

[Darth Sidious]

10 hours ago, Springwatch said:

I think the general direction of the story is that Arya has a god-given talent for killing, and we're supposed to look ahead to the endgame monsters that only a superhero can kill. The dark path to becoming that hero is just grrm playing around with the old trope that heroes are just lovable and cool and never do anything that could be called evil. Life as a song is being thoroughly deconstructed, and then reconstructed, and then I don't know...

An evil fighting another evil, like Arya fighting Ramsay later in the story. 

[SeanF]

By definition, to kill in self-defence, or in defence of others, is no murder.  And, the world is definitely a better place, without the likes of Chiswick, the Tickler, and Raff the Sweetling.  Ideally, these people would all be brought to trial:  in practice, they acted with impunity.  Justice came for them.

The killings of Daeron and the insurance broker are more dubious.  Neither, however, can be considered the “most heinous” of the series.

[SeanF]

On 11/14/2022 at 5:53 PM, Moiraine Sedai said:

Rafford.  That was revenge. 

That was performing a public service.

[Craving Peaches]

It is much harder to feel any sympathy for Rafford being murdered compared to Dareon. It is almost certain that we are intended to view Rafford as a nasty piece of work and not care/feel happy that he's dead, whereas with Dareon it was more ambiguous.

[SeanF]

5 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

It is much harder to feel any sympathy for Rafford being murdered compared to Dareon. It is almost certain that we are intended to view Rafford as a nasty piece of work and not care/feel happy that he's dead, whereas with Dareon it was more ambiguous.

Rafford is a rapist and common murderer.  He took part in the gang rape of the innkeep’s daughter and the murder of her brother.  A special place in hell awaits him.

The problem with revenge, in this tale as real life, is it’s often disproportionate or targeted at the wrong people.  But Raff, like the Tickler, got exactly what he deserved.

 

Edited November 18, 2022 by SeanF

[Craving Peaches]

47 minutes ago, SeanF said:

A special place in hell awaits him.

It most certainly does.

47 minutes ago, SeanF said:

The problem with revenge, in this tale as real life, is it’s often disproportionate or targeted at the wrong people.

The issue I see incoming for Arya, is that if she continues down the path of violence, she could meet a violent end. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

[Moiraine Sedai]

10 hours ago, SeanF said:

That was performing a public service.

Whoever does the same to Arya will performing a public service.