Aelinor Penrose

[MostlyMoody]

In preparation of a tabletop game me and my buds are running set around the time of the Third Blackfyre Rebellion I was looking into all the characters and their relations but the info is quite sparse.
Queen Aelinor Penrose - the wife of Aerys I is also his cousin. First thought was a relation to Elaena Targaryen. This would make sense since Elaena is still alive and could facilitate this marriage between Aerys and one of her close kin. Elaena had 4 named children with Ronnel Penrose, none of them Aelinor. The oldest child would be Robin Penrose who was born at the earliest in 184 AC. So if Aelinor was Robin's daughter she could have been born in 198 (which is quite generous since Robin would be 14). This would make Aelinor 23 by the time Aerys dies. So this is possible, except the implication from Aerys reign is that he famously doesn't have any kids, specifically with Aelinor. People urged him to remarry, Aerys constantly shunned her bed, Aelinor prayed daily to bless her with a child. The context clues seem to imply that she was older than 23 and closer to Aerys' age, and that them not having kids was a long running wedge in their marriage.

This will undoubtedly be answered in the Fire and Blood part 2 but my game is set to run in a month or so. lol
Maybe I am missing something obvious or overthinking it. Lemme know your thoughts.

[The hairy bear]

Yeah, it's been confirmed that Aelinor wasn't a descendant of Eleana.

Most likely, both Ronnel and Aelinor are descended from either Baela or Rhaena. For instance, one possibility would be that Laena Velaryon (Alyn and Baela's firstborn) had married some Lord Penrose, and Ronnel was their son. Laena was born in 134, so a son of hers could easily be around the same age as Elaena's (born in 150).

Then, Aelinor Penrose could be either Ronnel's sister or niece. Of course, being her in-law, Elaena would still have been instrumental in arranging her match to Aerys.

[Lord Varys]

44 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

Yeah, it's been confirmed that Aelinor wasn't a descendant of Eleana.

Most likely, both Ronnel and Aelinor are descended from either Baela or Rhaena. For instance, one possibility would be that Laena Velaryon (Alyn and Baela's firstborn) had married some Lord Penrose, and Ronnel was their son. Laena was born in 134, so a son of hers could easily be around the same age as Elaena's (born in 150).

Then, Aelinor Penrose could be either Ronnel's sister or niece. Of course, being her in-law, Elaena would still have been instrumental in arranging her match to Aerys.

I think the more likely version there is that Ronnel is actually Aelinor's father and was himself a childhood companion of Daeron II. Aelinor would then be Ronnel's daughter by his first wife, with her being about the same age as Aerys I. Ronnel then later took Elaena as his second wife to do his duty to his friend and king (who may have been in some need to create a pretext to make Elaena his Mistress of Coin).

But I certainly could see Ronnel also having a sister who is then a key candidate to be the mother of Jena Dondarrion. I cannot see Baelor Breakspear marrying a woman who doesn't have Targaryen blood. If they did that, Daeron II would have weakened his position even more ... and he wouldn't have wanted to do that. The betrothals for his (elder) sons were likely made early in his reign, at a time when he needed support for the Dornish plan as well as to deal with the acknowledged bastards and the corrupt court his father left him.

[direpupy]

The 6 daughters of Rhaena with her second husband Garmund Hightower are also posibilitys for being Aelinors mother.

[Ran]

28 minutes ago, direpupy said:

The 6 daughters of Rhaena with her second husband Garmund Hightower are also posibilitys for being Aelinors mother.

I think that's possible, if that part of the family tree stays fixed with F&B v2. I will say that George was mulling over changing some things up at some point. Basically anything in the family tree that is post F&B's text should be considered possibly up in the air unless there's firm confirmation within the fiction prose texts (ASoIaF, Dunk & Egg).

[Lord Varys]

8 hours ago, Ran said:

I think that's possible, if that part of the family tree stays fixed with F&B v2. I will say that George was mulling over changing some things up at some point. Basically anything in the family tree that is post F&B's text should be considered possibly up in the air unless there's firm confirmation within the fiction prose texts (ASoIaF, Dunk & Egg).

That is good to know. I must say, I'd greatly prefer it if George did away with Baelor Breakspear married to a Dondarrion. It just doesn't fit, you know, at all with Ser Manfred Dondarrion's behavior and actions in THK. Baelor would be his brother-in-law or cousin-in-law, and literally nothing in this story even remotely implies that the Dondarrions are close kin to Baelor and Valarr.

For Baelor George could easily enough give Daeron II and Myriah one daughter. It might also make sense to restore Aelinor Penrose to Aelinor Targaryen, making her Aerys' sister-wife as she originally was. Never understood what the point of that change was.

One would also imagine that whatever daughters Baela and Rhaena might should be considered as brides for the Young Dragon. If doesn't get Naerys, if he doesn't get Daena, then one of the cousins it should be. George could keep Daeron not being married if he wants to insist on that (although I'd really like him to leave a posthumous daughter) but he should at least be betrothed to a younger daughter of Baela and Alyn.

But I guess the family tree will evolve in accordance with the stories George wants to tell.