DominusNovus Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 We know that Renly planned to replace Cersei with Margaery, as part of a general plan of removing the Lannisters from power. We know that he wanted to play on, at least, the superficial resemblance between Margaery and Lyanna. But has it come up for discussion how Margaery would act, as Queen? She has far better PR, for lack of a better word, than Cersei, and she was clearly more calculating, and less impulsive (which is quite amusing, considering that she's just a teenager, and Cersei was a grown woman). Especially given that her position would rest on the fact that Cersei couldn't keep herself from committing treason by sleeping with someone other than Robert, we can be reasonably confident that Margaery would be much more restrained. Meanwhile, of course, Robert is likely to be Robert, and still continue to drink and whore around. How does Margaery cope with that? Just accept it as the price to being Queen? Try to keep his attention in the bedroom as best she can? Or do the Tyrells, in general, start getting just as ruthless as the Lannisters, and decide that once she's given him a son, he's not all that necessary to keep around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canon Claude Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 How was Renly planning to get Cersei out of the way again? He didn’t know her children were bastards, so did he just think Robert could cast her aside willy nilly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 28 minutes ago, Canon Claude said: How was Renly planning to get Cersei out of the way again? He didn’t know her children were bastards, so did he just think Robert could cast her aside willy nilly? Evidently. Unless he knew about the Lannincest, which makes him look like more of a hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 I would assume there was maybe more to the plan than hope Robert thinks Margaery looks good enough to set aside Cersei for. But I really doubt Renly knew of the incest. If he did know, he would likely go straight to Robert and tell him, because it would be just the thing to make him set Cersei aside and marry Margaery. It could just be one of those odd plots in the First Book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 10 hours ago, DominusNovus said: We know that Renly planned to replace Cersei with Margaery, as part of a general plan of removing the Lannisters from power. We know that he wanted to play on, at least, the superficial resemblance between Margaery and Lyanna. But has it come up for discussion how Margaery would act, as Queen? She has far better PR, for lack of a better word, than Cersei, and she was clearly more calculating, and less impulsive (which is quite amusing, considering that she's just a teenager, and Cersei was a grown woman). Especially given that her position would rest on the fact that Cersei couldn't keep herself from committing treason by sleeping with someone other than Robert, we can be reasonably confident that Margaery would be much more restrained. Meanwhile, of course, Robert is likely to be Robert, and still continue to drink and whore around. How does Margaery cope with that? Just accept it as the price to being Queen? Try to keep his attention in the bedroom as best she can? Or do the Tyrells, in general, start getting just as ruthless as the Lannisters, and decide that once she's given him a son, he's not all that necessary to keep around? An heir and a spare and then poof, Robert gone if he's too troublesome, quite obvious given what happened to Joffrey. If Robert proves to be not bothersome, well, even he would be better than a 5 year old king under whose rule(regency) vassals would be tearing at each other for favors and influence. Mace isn't the fool he was shown to be in the show but he's not that imposing a figure as Tywin either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: Mace isn't the fool he was shown to be in the show Lots of people slander Mace as though he's some kind of idiot but he's not. He acts like a jolly oaf in public but when it's in private he's not so stupid. You can see it with his conversation near the end of ADwD. I mean if Olenna's his mother why would he be stupid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 12 hours ago, DominusNovus said: We know that Renly planned to replace Cersei with Margaery, as part of a general plan of removing the Lannisters from power. We know that he wanted to play on, at least, the superficial resemblance between Margaery and Lyanna. But has it come up for discussion how Margaery would act, as Queen? She has far better PR, for lack of a better word, than Cersei, and she was clearly more calculating, and less impulsive (which is quite amusing, considering that she's just a teenager, and Cersei was a grown woman). Especially given that her position would rest on the fact that Cersei couldn't keep herself from committing treason by sleeping with someone other than Robert, we can be reasonably confident that Margaery would be much more restrained. Meanwhile, of course, Robert is likely to be Robert, and still continue to drink and whore around. How does Margaery cope with that? Just accept it as the price to being Queen? Try to keep his attention in the bedroom as best she can? Or do the Tyrells, in general, start getting just as ruthless as the Lannisters, and decide that once she's given him a son, he's not all that necessary to keep around? Mace and Olenna are different in regards to how they will think of that marriage. Marge won't be happy but Mace would write it off as the price of high social status as queen. Olenna would want Marge happy and remove Robert after the couple produces an heir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominusNovus Posted November 11, 2022 Author Share Posted November 11, 2022 5 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said: An heir and a spare and then poof, Robert gone if he's too troublesome, quite obvious given what happened to Joffrey. If Robert proves to be not bothersome, well, even he would be better than a 5 year old king under whose rule(regency) vassals would be tearing at each other for favors and influence. Mace isn't the fool he was shown to be in the show but he's not that imposing a figure as Tywin either. 3 hours ago, The Commentator said: Mace and Olenna are different in regards to how they will think of that marriage. Marge won't be happy but Mace would write it off as the price of high social status as queen. Olenna would want Marge happy and remove Robert after the couple produces an heir. I’m not sure I’m convinced they’d off him that easily. There’s Joffrey the sadistic psychopath, who they were not just protecting Margaery from, but they were also in league with Baelish in order to off him. Then there’s Robert, just a lech and a drunk. He’s no paragon of chivalry, but compared to Joffrey, he’s perfectly acceptable. Robert drunk is preferable to Joffrey sober. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 8 minutes ago, DominusNovus said: I’m not sure I’m convinced they’d off him that easily. There’s Joffrey the sadistic psychopath, who they were not just protecting Margaery from, but they were also in league with Baelish in order to off him. Then there’s Robert, just a lech and a drunk. He’s no paragon of chivalry, but compared to Joffrey, he’s perfectly acceptable. Robert drunk is preferable to Joffrey sober. And I didn't say they'll off him easily for no reason at all. If a drunken Robert starts beating Margaery(I highly doubt it, Cersei only got hit once and she pushed him real hard), if he treats her bad in any way, they'll do it, otherwise, Robert is a good placeholder until the new heir comes of age. But then there's also the fact Robert wasn't long for this world anyway, he's just 35-40 but obese, morbidly so if I recall, and a drunkard. Even if his liver persists, his kidneys will likely be gone in a few years due to high blood pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominusNovus Posted November 11, 2022 Author Share Posted November 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said: And I didn't say they'll off him easily for no reason at all. If a drunken Robert starts beating Margaery(I highly doubt it, Cersei only got hit once and she pushed him real hard), if he treats her bad in any way, they'll do it, otherwise, Robert is a good placeholder until the new heir comes of age. But then there's also the fact Robert wasn't long for this world anyway, he's just 35-40 but obese, morbidly so if I recall, and a drunkard. Even if his liver persists, his kidneys will likely be gone in a few years due to high blood pressure. I agree regarding Robert’s health. However, as much as I am loathe to defend Cersei, I’m pretty sure he hit her more than once. My gut says he’s far less likely to hit Margaery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 The only reason Olenna offer Joffrey was because of how insane he was. He was dangerous and unpredictable. Robert would be far easier to deal with, and likely would never be a threat to Margaery’s safety. Olenna wouldn’t risk regicide for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominusNovus Posted November 11, 2022 Author Share Posted November 11, 2022 1 hour ago, PrinceAemondTargaryen said: The only reason Olenna offer Joffrey was because of how insane he was. He was dangerous and unpredictable. Robert would be far easier to deal with, and likely would never be a threat to Margaery’s safety. Olenna wouldn’t risk regicide for that. It just occurred to me that, if Robert did start annoying the Tyrells, they might be willing to just indulge his vices more. A drunk king will devolve more decisions to a (presumably Tyrell-led) Small Council. Give him some exciting amorous company if he’s being too bothersome to Margaery. They don’t strike me as the sort to be bothered by *low born* bastards. A king with just such normal vices is a king thats easier to manage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 On 11/10/2022 at 4:11 PM, DominusNovus said: We know that Renly planned to replace Cersei with Margaery, as part of a general plan of removing the Lannisters from power. We know that he wanted to play on, at least, the superficial resemblance between Margaery and Lyanna. But has it come up for discussion how Margaery would act, as Queen? She has far better PR, for lack of a better word, than Cersei, and she was clearly more calculating, and less impulsive (which is quite amusing, considering that she's just a teenager, and Cersei was a grown woman). Especially given that her position would rest on the fact that Cersei couldn't keep herself from committing treason by sleeping with someone other than Robert, we can be reasonably confident that Margaery would be much more restrained. Meanwhile, of course, Robert is likely to be Robert, and still continue to drink and whore around. How does Margaery cope with that? Just accept it as the price to being Queen? Try to keep his attention in the bedroom as best she can? Or do the Tyrells, in general, start getting just as ruthless as the Lannisters, and decide that once she's given him a son, he's not all that necessary to keep around? Margaery Tyrell would have been the perfect queen for Robert ,Robb , Jon and Aegon and Me . She is young ,beautiful .very intelligent and she seems to truly care about the small folk . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Peres Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 She would be great. She would give him a heir, stay out of his self destructive ways, avoid conflict and pissing off Robert, let him die a natural death over buzz or std, and be a young widow with a King for son, rich, and have control over her life from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrosh Lannister Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Was Renly planning on killing Cersei? He did not know about the incest. If he knew, things would be much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 3 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said: Was Renly planning on killing Cersei? He certainly wanted her out of power. He also believed she was going to kill him, which Cersei herself confirms in her POV chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrosh Lannister Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 53 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: He certainly wanted her out of power. He also believed she was going to kill him, which Cersei herself confirms in her POV chapter. How was he planning on removing her from power ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 14 minutes ago, Tyrosh Lannister said: How was he planning on removing her from power ? By replacing her with Margaery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrosh Lannister Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 6 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: By replacing her with Margaery... But how would he replace Cersei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Tyrosh Lannister said: But how would he replace Cersei It's not entirely clear. The text implies that the plan was for Robert to fall in love with Margaery and set Cersei aside for her, but I would assume there was more to it than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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