BigFatCoward Posted November 30, 2022 Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 28 minutes ago, baxus said: Yeah, that's why Shaq dominated the league for all that time. It was because of his finesse and subtlety. I can name a number of successful but non athletic centres, Walton, Sabonis, Kareem in the 80s, Gasol etc, where intelligence and guile were key. Name me some unathletic guards? And size is not the same as athleticism anyway. Yao Ming, wasn't athletic, just massive. Athleticism has never been the most important thing for centre's, other than maybe Wilt & Howard. Shaq wasn't athletic either. Just a fucking force of nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Shaq wasn't athletic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted November 30, 2022 Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 20 minutes ago, baxus said: Shaq wasn't athletic? Not really. If you look at measures of athleticism he has about 2 of 10. Lebron is huge and athletic, shaq was mainly huge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin et al. Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said: Not really. If you look at measures of athleticism he has about 2 of 10. Lebron is huge and athletic, shaq was mainly huge Watch videos of young Shaq, not the fatter, older player. He was a freak in his early 20's. briantw and Rhom 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted November 30, 2022 Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Watch videos of young Shaq, not the fatter, older player. He was a freak in his early 20's. He was 'more' athletic certainly, not athletic per se. Edited November 30, 2022 by BigFatCoward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin et al. Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 40 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: He was 'more' arhletic certainly, not athletic per se. He was always athletic. Even when he got big he still moved incredibly for a guy of that size. Rhom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin et al. Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 On Luka's brilliance: Ferrum Aeternum 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 2 hours ago, BigFatCoward said: Not really. If you look at measures of athleticism he has about 2 of 10. Lebron is huge and athletic, shaq was mainly huge You need to watch some of Shaq's games before we continue this discussion. briantw, Tywin et al., Ferrum Aeternum and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted November 30, 2022 Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, baxus said: You need to watch some of Shaq's games before we continue this discussion. You need to understand what athletic means before we continue this discussion. It doesn't just mean overwhelmingly massive and powerful. Multiple sources identify various measures of athletic prowess. Shaq had very few of them. one source strength - yes speed - not really power - yes agility - not really anaerobic capacity - no aerobic capacity -no mobility - not really balance and coordination - meh mental resilience - absolutely not stability - not really Edited November 30, 2022 by BigFatCoward Calibandar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 1 minute ago, BigFatCoward said: You need to understand what athletic means before we continue this discussion. It doesn't just mean overwhelmingly massive and powerful. Multiple sources identify various measures of athletic prowess. Shaq had very few of them. No, you need to understand what means to be athletic - Shaq ran coast to coast, jumped high, blocked shots, was strong enough to not only take on some of the best centres that ever played the game but dominate against them. Go and watch some of his matches, then we can talk. Rhom, Ferrum Aeternum and briantw 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted November 30, 2022 Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 1 minute ago, baxus said: No, you need to understand what means to be athletic - Shaq ran coast to coast, jumped high, blocked shots, was strong enough to not only take on some of the best centres that ever played the game but dominate against them. Go and watch some of his matches, then we can talk. Watch matches you say, I was just basing my opinion's off his top trump card. That's really helpful, i'll try that. Funnily enough, the one that was truly athletic used to confuse the shit out of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 1 minute ago, BigFatCoward said: Watch matches you say, I was just basing my opinion's off his top trump card. That's really helpful, i'll try that. Yeah, I figured as much, with the arguments you were making. Please, do try watching matches next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted November 30, 2022 Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 45 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: On Luka's brilliance: Even if he retires as all time leading scorer, most triple doubles and multiple championships and MVP's, his finest moment will always be 'the look' he gave Booker in game 7 last year. Tywin et al. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 There have been guards who dominated but weren't crazy athletes. Steve Nash comes to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 22 minutes ago, Maithanet said: There have been guards who dominated but weren't crazy athletes. Steve Nash comes to mind. Stockton too. White point guards baby! Also, Shaq was certainly athletic. There are, of course, different forms of athleticism, but Shaq's natural abilities for a man of that size is exactly what made him such a unique "force." That's god-given athleticism - just like Zion's - even if both had weight problems. Trent Williams is one of the best athletes in the NFL and he's about 320 pounds. Rhom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted November 30, 2022 Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 You put Steve Nash 1 on 1 v Shaq in all the sports on earth, I think he would win 90%. Just think of track and field alone, out of all the events I'd take Shaq to win 2 or 3 (shot definitely, and hammer and discuss). Every other 'athletic' event, he loses to the skinny white guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 I have no idea what point you're trying to make here. Who gives a shit whether Steve Nash is better than Shaq at swimming. Shaq is very athletic in general and is an all time great athlete for his size. And he plays a sport where being incredibly big and tall is a huge advantage. Thus he is much more athletic than basically everyone anywhere near his size, and those are the guys that are covering him. Whether or not Shaq would be great at sports where being very big and strong are not an advantage is not an argument I care about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin et al. Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 (edited) We have a thread for this FFS!!! Also, @BigFatCoward, you are really undercutting Shaq here. Shaq had crazy agility, mobility, balance and coordination and stability for a man of that size. The joke here in the US is if you see a dude who is super tall and is an accountant that he must be a horrible athlete because size alone can get you into the NBA if you're that big. Shaq was incredibly nibble for a man that large and again, Shaq could go end to end like a player who was much smaller. He's an all-time athlete who also happened to be Goliath. Edited November 30, 2022 by Tywin et al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 NBA Shaq was big and lazy, but underneath all the rap videos and bulk to compete in the post-Detroit Bad Boys NBA, he was an athlete. Have a look at this short video of him playing against UK at the Maravich in college, and you can see a smooth free throw motion, reverse layups, leaners, good action to the basket from the elbow, and generally treating Jamal Mashburn like he was an underfed child. Yes, after he left LSU he stopped developing anything other than the Bill Laimbeer Combat Basketball skill set, but he was athletic as all get-out. He would work hardest in games against the Razorbacks and Wildcats, and he was particularly eager to run the court against Arkansas for some reason. That sort of sense of urgency wasn't an emphasis in an 82-game regular season in the NBA. Environmental factors worked against him becoming the sort of player like Kareem or Giannis as well, as the 90s NBA devolved into dirty/physical play thanks to Detroit and then the Riley Knicks, the shortening of the three-point arc, and the officiating that shifted to benefit that style of play. No one asked Shaq to face up to the basket from the elbow or the wing; instead his coaches allowed him to beef up and play down on the blocks body to body with Rodman, Oakley, Mason, Davis, Cage, McDyess, Rollins, Dampier, and other similar lumber underneath the basket. Calibandar and Rhom 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Feel like it should be noted that there were about a dozen or so "Baby Shaqs" hyped up in the 10 to 15 years after he was drafted because they were similarly big and strong. None of them approached Shaq's success because they were inferior athletes. briantw and Rhom 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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