Whatever happened to Shiera Seastar?

[_Bittersteel_]

Of all the Great Bastards, hers is the only fate we know nothing of. Bittersteel died from a wound sustained in a battle in Essos, Daemon was killed on the Redgrass Field, and Bloodraven either died north of the Wall or became the 3 Eyed Crow. We know next to nothing about what happened to Shiera.

[James Steller]

There's a fan theory that she's Melisandre, but I really hope it's not true. 

[_Bittersteel_]

14 minutes ago, James Steller said:

There's a fan theory that she's Melisandre, but I really hope it's not true. 

Yeah that would suck honestly. I’d rather her be the Ghost of High Heart or even Quaith before that.

[Frey family reunion]

19 minutes ago, James Steller said:

There's a fan theory that she's Melisandre, but I really hope it's not true. 

The theory I read, is that Melisandre is the daughter of Shiera and Bloodraven.  

[_Bittersteel_]

28 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

The theory I read, is that Melisandre is the daughter of Shiera and Bloodraven.  

See, that would be better

[Jaenara Belarys]

I think she's Quaithe, but you would have to find someone else to collect all the evidence. 

[Corvo the Crow]

1 hour ago, James Steller said:

There's a fan theory that she's Melisandre, but I really hope it's not true. 

Melisandre is an Albino. Hair can be dyed(and is done, beards too!), but colored lenses don't exist in Planetos so her red eyes are her own. She could very well be her and Bloodraven's daughter though. Heartshaped face just like Shiera, an Albino just like Bloodraven.

[Craving Peaches]

25 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Melisandre is an Albino. Hair can be dyed(and is done, beards too!), but colored lenses don't exist in Planetos so her red eyes are her own.

I thought Shiera had heterochromia?

[Corvo the Crow]

3 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I thought Shiera had heterochromia?

Bloodraven was an Albino. 

[Craving Peaches]

Just now, Corvo the Crow said:

Bloodraven was an Albino. 

Yes. But Albinism is recessive, as far as I am aware, and Shiera wasn't an albino, so how likely would it be that their daughter would be an albino?

[Corvo the Crow]

3 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Yes. But Albinism is recessive, as far as I am aware, and Shiera wasn't an albino, so how likely would it be that their daughter would be an albino?

You said it yourself, recessive. Shiera doesn't need to be an Albino to carry.

[Craving Peaches]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

You said it yourself, recessive. Shiera doesn't need to be an Albino to carry.

But why would Shiera be carrying?

[Corvo the Crow]

12 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

But why would Shiera be carrying?

Because she is Aegon the Unworthy's daughter? The guy who is also Brynden Bloodraven's father? 

[Craving Peaches]

9 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Because she is Aegon the Unworthy's daughter? The guy who is also Brynden Bloodraven's father? 

As none of the other children or bastards are albino, it is more likely that Bloodraven's albinism was caused by a chance mutation than by both parents carrying recessive genes. So I think the chances of Melisandre being the daughter of Shiera and Bloodraven because she has red eyes is low. Her whole appearance could be part of a glamour, alternatively there is no proof that her hair isn't naturally red,which would also mean she's not an albino.

[hnv]

15 hours ago, James Steller said:

There's a fan theory that she's Melisandre, but I really hope it's not true. 

That sounds implausible. She clearly has memories of herself as Melory being sold as a Slave. And she would have definitely been more savvy with her dealings with Westrosi. Why wouldn't Bloodraven contact her through the flames before she reaches the wall? 

 

Sometimes people are just dead.

[Tyrosh Lannister]

She is not Melisandre or Quaithe 

[Shierak Qiya]

Elissa Farman is Qaithe.  Shiera Seastar is ?

Didn't Mellisandre have a memory of being sold as a child?  That would rule her out. 

[Corvo the Crow]

21 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

As none of the other children or bastards are albino, it is more likely that Bloodraven's albinism was caused by a chance mutation than by both parents carrying recessive genes. So I think the chances of Melisandre being the daughter of Shiera and Bloodraven because she has red eyes is low. Her whole appearance could be part of a glamour, alternatively there is no proof that her hair isn't naturally red,which would also mean she's not an albino.

I had a long post but apparently didn’t send it.

You were arguing earlier about it being recessive, now you are saying chance mutations. Did chance mutation strike twice?

I can’t find how many albinos got two copies of germline mutations and how many got one germline one de novo but you can bet that both being de novo mutations would be rare.

Other bastards are also completely irrelevant since it being recessive. Only Blackwood ones are relevant and we just have 3 of them including Brynden. 1 in 4 chance and 3 children, 1 of them Albino. 

Melisandre’s appearence on the other hand is quite relevant but I’ll explain it later so as not to lose this post too.

[Craving Peaches]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

You were arguing earlier about it being recessive, now you are saying chance mutations. Did chance mutation strike twice?

What I was saying is that it could be passed on recessively or be a chance mutation, and that given none of Bloodraven's siblings have it, would mean that it was likely due to chance, which, if he had a daughter with Shiera, who isn't albino and doesn't look likely to be carrying, it would be likely she wasn't an albino, unless there was another chance mutation. So I think it would be very unlikely.

Also, Melisandre may have red eyes, but she also has red hair, there's nothing to suggest her hair is being dyed, and while she has pale skin it isn't noted as being extremely pale. So I just don't think her having red eyes is very convincing evidence that she's Bloodraven's and Shiera's daughter.

[Corvo the Crow]

4 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

What I was saying is that it could be passed on recessively or be a chance mutation, and that given none of Bloodraven's siblings have it, would mean that it was likely due to chance, which, if he had a daughter with Shiera, who isn't albino and doesn't look likely to be carrying, it would be likely she wasn't an albino, unless there was another chance mutation. So I think it would be very unlikely.

 

In Mendelian genetics, for recessive traits, you need two copies. Not that GRRM would know much genetics beside highschool(or was it earlier?) Mendelian genetics anyway, but as I said, Bloodraven would need two copies and both of these two to be de novo mutations is extremely unlikely. And how would you even know if Shiera or the parents were carrying a recessive trait that won't manifest itself because there is only a single copy? Are parents of Albino children in our world look to be carrying? Do all albino children from the same parents have siblings that are only albinos? Not to mention the fact that Valyrians themselves are leukistic anyway.

 

As for Melisandre's appearance: Looks are very important in ASOIAF universe, families preserve their looks not over a generation or two but for hundreds, even thousands of years. It is a very important plot point of the first book and is presented as one of the reasons that Jon got the treatment he got from Catelyn. Sure a bastard was bad enough but Jon looking exactly like Ned while Catelyn's own sons looked like, well, Tullys, made it worse.

There are just two characters in the books that are described as having faces that are heart shaped. Melisandre and Jeyne Westerling. obviously, having a heart shaped face doesn't mean that Jeyne Westerling is descended from heart shape faced Shiera(mentioned in SSM as I recall), nor does it necessarily mean Melisandre is either. How many Albinos are there just two, Ghost of Highheart and Bloodraven. Now when we are so lacking in heartshape face characters and albino ones what a coincidence it is that one of these heartshaped characters had some sort of relationship with one of the Albinos, right? Also what a coincidence as well that these two were siblings, making the heartshape faced one a likely candidate for carrying an albinism gene even with GRRMs level of genetics knowledge. Now, does it seem so far off that Melisandre, a heart face shaped character who, apart from her red hair which may very well be dyed as even the men in planetos do dye their hair, appears to be the very image of an albino with her skin and red eyes? Add to these the fact that Melisandre is older than she looks(can't find the quote) and is quite likely to be of Westerosi origin, since the name Melony is apparently a Westerosi name (Melony Piper).