Potsk Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 I haven't really kept up with the forum for a while, only hanging around on the wiki, but I must voice my disagreement with a decision made here that disallows any and all images from the TV-series as main article images. To be clear, I don't want to see eyepatchless Euron, handsome Tyrion, or Valyrians with unremarkable eye colors, but I think it does no harm if a TV image is used so long as it makes no contradictions to descriptions in the books, which there are many examples of: are House of the Dragon's Ryam Redwyne or Harrold Westerling inaccurate appearance-wise? For lack of other depictions, I don't see why we shouldn't use actors' portrayals, or especially TV depictions of dragons which really are just artists' depictions but done highly professionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direpupy Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 I fundamentaly disagree, if you start to mix TV-show with book the line while blurr realy fast. Personnaly i think we should have no TV-images on bookpages at all, not even lower down on the page. Book pages should be about the books otherwise where does it end? First you put up pictures and then from there it might spirall out of control and you get al kinds of references to the shows instead of it beëing about the books. That the primary image in the infobox of a bookpage has to be a bookaccurate one but show images are allowed lower down on the page is already a compromise, and i do not think we should go any further than that. The hairy bear 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wondering Wolf Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 21 minutes ago, direpupy said: That the primary image in the infobox of a bookpage has to be a bookaccurate one but show images are allowed lower down on the page is already a compromise, and i do not think we should go any further than that. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potsk Posted November 21, 2022 Author Share Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, direpupy said: I fundamentaly disagree, if you start to mix TV-show with book the line while blurr realy fast. Personnaly i think we should have no TV-images on bookpages at all, not even lower down on the page. Book pages should be about the books otherwise where does it end? First you put up pictures and then from there it might spirall out of control and you get al kinds of references to the shows instead of it beëing about the books. I do not see it this way. You are looking at this from an excessively purist mindset. Nothing will "spiral out of control" and the wiki won't be taken over by the TV series because a few minor characters have live action images or dragons have CGI images. As for your question "where does it end," I already said where it ends: images that make no contradictions are okay, others are not. What makes a drawn illustration of a character by a third party more "accurate" anyhow? Edited November 21, 2022 by Potsk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 We are a book wiki, not a TV show wiki, and so it makes sense that the main image for any article should be based directly on the book and its descriptions of characters, events, scenes, places, etc. and not on the TV show rendition of these things. As others say, secondary images could be drawn from the TV show. I'd love to get a list of charcter pages where we only have TV show images, or no images at all, some time. It feels like this may be a place that the new means of AI art could prove useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potsk Posted November 21, 2022 Author Share Posted November 21, 2022 8 minutes ago, Ran said: We are a book wiki, not a TV show wiki When was this decided? Currently and as long as I can remember, the "About the Wiki" section on the main page has said "A Wiki of Ice and Fire is fan-created for George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire and HBO's Game of Thrones." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 9 minutes ago, Potsk said: When was this decided? Currently and as long as I can remember, the "About the Wiki" section on the main page has said "A Wiki of Ice and Fire is fan-created for George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire and HBO's Game of Thrones." Book wiki first, TV wiki second, which is why book images are first and TV show images are secondary? There is a TV-show focused wiki out there that reverses the order of these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wondering Wolf Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 46 minutes ago, Ran said: I'd love to get a list of charcter pages where we only have TV show images, or no images at all, some time. We have that in the German wiki. It's a category which is automatically added when the image parameter in the infobox remains empty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 That'd be cool to have if someone knows how that's done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wondering Wolf Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 The code we use is (implemented in the template): Quote {{#if:{{{image|}}}|{{#ifeq:{{{image|}}}|<br>||}}|<includeonly>[[Category:Characters without image]]</includeonly> }} But I don't know if that works on this wiki, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direpupy Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, Potsk said: I do not see it this way. You are looking at this from an excessively purist mindset. Nothing will "spiral out of control" and the wiki won't be taken over by the TV series because a few minor characters have live action images or dragons have CGI images. As for your question "where does it end," I already said where it ends: images that make no contradictions are okay, others are not. What makes a drawn illustration of a character by a third party more "accurate" anyhow? Thats a stupid accusation, there is nothing purist about it. Like Ran said its a book wiki, the pages on the TV-show's are there as informative but are not the focus. As for the accurate part, we have in the past removed inaccurate artwork as wel, now that does not mean al artwork is 100% accurate but most come close, TV images can never come close to book accurate where artwork can. Edited November 22, 2022 by direpupy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abjiklam Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Â Â 22 hours ago, Ran said: I'd love to get a list of charcter pages where we only have TV show images, or no images at all, some time. It feels like this may be a place that the new means of AI art could prove useful. A category for characters without images already exists here. Ran 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 8 minutes ago, Abjiklam said:   A category for characters without images already exists here. Hmm, lots of characters with no textual descriptions at all. I wonder if there'd be a way to find those that have an Appearance entry besides manually checking... Can we get the "Without Images" category to appear on the page for the character, with the other categories that are relevant? Then eventually Google should have that in its cache and then one can search for all pages that have Appearance + the category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abjiklam Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 23 minutes ago, Ran said: Hmm, lots of characters with no textual descriptions at all. I wonder if there'd be a way to find those that have an Appearance entry besides manually checking... Can we get the "Without Images" category to appear on the page for the character, with the other categories that are relevant? Then eventually Google should have that in its cache and then one can search for all pages that have Appearance + the category. You want a list of characters with an appearance but without an image? That can be done with the infobox template directly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 17 minutes ago, Abjiklam said: You want a list of characters with an appearance but without an image? That can be done with the infobox template directly. That would be ideal, if that makes sense? I can see a lot of "Appearance" for characters are very brief, of course, as most characters who have detailed descriptions have already been drawn and it's those that have none or very little who are not given any. But just seeing which non-imaged characters actually do have any kind of Appearance entry where whatever description that exists is provided would be useful. FWIW, an artist from RotD has offered to try and do some pieces for the wiki of characters and such who haven't been depicted yet, so prioritizing characters who have descriptions but no images would be ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abjiklam Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Â I think I misunderstood. You want character pages with an "Appearance" section but no image, right? I understood pages without image, but with the "Books" parameter in the infobox containing "appears". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 17 minutes ago, Abjiklam said: Â I think I misunderstood. You want character pages with an "Appearance" section but no image, right? I understood pages without image, but with the "Books" parameter in the infobox containing "appears". Ah, yes, I meant an "Appearance" section that provide whatever descriptions there are for how the character looks. Basically to easily find characters who for some reason no one has depicted but there's details to base a depiction on... Two I found with browsing are Anya Waynwood and Boremund Baratheon, they've enough details for an artist to take a crack at them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abjiklam Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 This would be a perfect task for a bot, but I haven't been able to get one working so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, Abjiklam said: This would be a perfect task for a bot, but I haven't been able to get one working so far. What do you think of having the category "Character without images" appear in the categories listing for a character? I'm not sure what mediates that. Then we could try the Google thing once Google crawls the wiki again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abjiklam Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, Ran said: What do you think of having the category "Character without images" appear in the categories listing for a character? I'm not sure what mediates that. Then we could try the Google thing once Google crawls the wiki again. Done, I removed the __HIDDENCAT__ tag. Ran 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.