Why did Stannis not tell Robert about the Incest or warn him his Life could be in Danger?

[Alden Rothack]

2 minutes ago, frenin said:

He says he doesn't and he has little reason to lie.

 

Not really, Margaery is still Queen and Renly has little problem with the children, he just doesn't want them around Lannisters.

 

They get Queen Margaery. That's something.

Tywin would marry Cersei to either Rhaegar, with two heirs already, or with Viserys, who was third in line for the throne. Royal marriages are advantegeous in and on themselves.

Ofc, the more leverage you have the more ambitious you get, Mace had plenty against both Renly and Tywin, he has little against Robert.

 

He says he didn't know about the twincest.

 

Unless ofc he did not know about the twincest.

If he wants to get rid of Cersei, he only has to tell either Robert or Ned and Cersei's head would be on a pike within hours.

Yet we have to believe that he is protecting Cersei and the Lannisters from Robert's wrath?

 

That is objectively wrong.

 

How so? How about responding to Ned's letters and let him know what was going on?

He knew where Robert was going when he left King's Landing, his first act should have been about going straight up tp Winterfell, not only because he'd have months of advantage but because the North was the domain of a notorious Lannister hater who would have loved nothing more than arresting Cersei and Jaime for treason.

Instead he gave it a half hearted attempt and went to sulk and prepare himself for the war of succesion that would inevitably start after his king's death.

That could have backfired, though if he had and Ned believed him it would solve many of the problems

there would still be a war though

[frenin]

43 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

That could have backfired,

How?

43 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

there would still be a war though

Far smaller and far less destructive than the War of the 5 kings.

[Alden Rothack]

21 minutes ago, frenin said:

How?

Far smaller and far less destructive than the War of the 5 kings.

Ned could have warned Cersei who would have fought her way out of Winterfell with the hundreds of men the royal party brought along

[frenin]

13 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

Ned could have warned Cersei who would have fought her way out of Winterfell with the hundreds of men the royal party brought along

Those men are loyal to Robert, not Cersei.

The only men she could rely on are Jaime and maybe Sandor? They'd get overwhelmed quick.

And say they do get out of Winterfell... Where would they go? The North is huge and is the first time they have step a foot on it, hell i idoubt either of them had seen snow before arriving in the north.

 

[Alden Rothack]

28 minutes ago, frenin said:

Those men are loyal to Robert, not Cersei.

The only men she could rely on are Jaime and maybe Sandor? They'd get overwhelmed quick.

And say they do get out of Winterfell... Where would they go? The North is huge and is the first time they have step a foot on it, hell i idoubt either of them had seen snow before arriving in the north.

 

if even half of the men are actually Roberts i'd be surprised, the fact that they would freeze to death or be recaptured doesn't change the fact that lots of people including most likely Stannis and Robert would be dead

the only way it works is if Ned knows before the kings party arrives and takes measures to disarm the kingslayer and other lannister forces

Which could happen but it requires Stannis to trust Ned and Ned to believe him and choose to be pragmatic about the situation

which he didn't choose in the books

[frenin]

3 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

if even half of the men are actually Roberts i'd be surprised

People really overrate the influence Cersei has on the court. Even after Robert dies, Cersei only prevails over Ned because the Gold Cloaks sided with her and they only do so because with Robert dead there's uncertainty about which party should they support.

 

3 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

including most likely Stannis and Robert would be dead

This much is almost impossible. Ned's men obviously overwhemls the party.

 

5 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

which he didn't choose in the books

Because he had othher plans, mainly and specifically waiting for Robert to die and claim kingship.

 

 

[Springwatch]

4 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

Renly totally knew about the twincest. Renly's plan to marry Margaery to Robert only works if he knew Cersei's children are bastards. Otherwise, the Tyrells get nothing out of the arrangement. At best, any son Robert sired on Margaery would be third in line of succession. The Tyrells would only have gone along with Renly's scheme if they knew that Cersei's children were illegitimate and that it could be proven. As to why Renly didn't just tell Robert about the incest? I dunno. You'd have to ask him. At least Stannis put the work in trying to prove the incest. It definately makes Renly look... hypocritical, self-serving and opportunistic.

Agree.

16 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

The issue is I believe the Author himself has confirmed Renly did not know about the incest. Also, if Renly did know he would instantly tell Robert because it almost guarantees his Margaery plan will succeed.

The author's remarks aren't 100% accurate. Even ones that look simple.

On the second point, telling Robert could be a bit tricky - the way characters talk, it seems Robert's likely to fall into a killing rage and murder Cersei and her children on the spot. So no trial or confession or proof - just a mad king, and the Baratheons suffer a major reputational hit. Not to mention whatever vengeance Twyin can dream up.

[Craving Peaches]

15 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

The author's remarks aren't 100% accurate. Even ones that look simple.

I'm not sure, I think someone asked him and it was straight up 'No'.

I could be wrong, as I am going off what I have read, I don't have the primary source, but it didn't look like there was any ambiguity to the statement, or any room for an alternative meaning.

Also, if Renly knew, I don't see why he wouldn't just tell Robert, as it would almost be an instant win button for his Margaery plan. Robert may fly into a rage, but he could have told Robert at any time when they weren't around, or he could have phrased it as to not make Robert instantly angry.

[Alden Rothack]

2 hours ago, frenin said:

People really overrate the influence Cersei has on the court. Even after Robert dies, Cersei only prevails over Ned because the Gold Cloaks sided with her and they only do so because with Robert dead there's uncertainty about which party should they support.

 

This much is almost impossible. Ned's men obviously overwhemls the party.

 

Because he had othher plans, mainly and specifically waiting for Robert to die and claim kingship.

 

 

Ned does not have more men inside winterfell and him warning cersei is not less likely precisely because he will think that most of the men will support Robert, this is far less likely than you think

the fact that they obey cersei when they should obey either the hand or the regent is telling (Cersei is not the Regent no matter what she says, thats either Ned or Stannis (as next oldest Baratheon he is unquestionably the next in line who is of age)

[frenin]

1 hour ago, Alden Rothack said:

Ned does not have more men inside winterfell

Ofc he does, what are you talking about?

 

1 hour ago, Alden Rothack said:

this is far less likely than you think

It is not.

 

1 hour ago, Alden Rothack said:

the fact that they obey cersei when they should obey either the hand or the regent is telling (Cersei is not the Regent no matter what she says, thats either Ned or Stannis (as next oldest Baratheon he is unquestionably the next in line who is of age)

Robert is dead, his son ascends the throne and as such there is a new power vacum to be filled. It's like arguing that Henry I didn't actually ruled his men because he was disobeyed after he died. 

Robert ruled and was obeyed while he lived, once he is dead power is up for grabs.

[sifth]

Plot convenience is the short answer. The better question to ask is, how did he find out about it in the first place? That always puzzled me, because it's not a Harwin Strong type of situation, where all the kids didn't resemble either of their parents.

[Alden Rothack]

1 hour ago, frenin said:

Ofc he does, what are you talking about?

 

It is not.

 

Robert is dead, his son ascends the throne and as such there is a new power vacum to be filled. It's like arguing that Henry I didn't actually ruled his men because he was disobeyed after he died. 

Robert ruled and was obeyed while he lived, once he is dead power is up for grabs.

Except we see examples of not only them taking orders from cersei while he lived (such as during the fiasco at Darry) but counter examples of men who follow their lieges commands even after they are dead such as the Stark and rivermen who hold to robb and the stark cause generally after the red wedding

Robert may be king but the lannisters have most of the power

[Craving Peaches]

16 minutes ago, sifth said:

Plot convenience is the short answer.

I think that has to be it. Otherwise it just conflicts with the rest of his character, or it makes him look like a hypocrite (to me at least). Unless Stannis is actually intended to be a hypocrite. I'm not sure about that.

16 minutes ago, sifth said:

The better question to ask is, how did he find out about it in the first place?

I don't think he ever knew for sure like Ned did, as he never got a confession from Cersei. I also don't know if he had access to the book or not, but given Jon Arryn did and they were investigating together, it's likely he was aware. Even so, without the confession from Cersei, the evidence Stannis has is a bit iffy, so I think it would be correct to say he strongly suspected the children were bastards rather than that he knew they were bastards. Because without the confession he has no way of knowing for sure.

[Alden Rothack]

9 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I think that has to be it. Otherwise it just conflicts with the rest of his character, or it makes him look like a hypocrite (to me at least). Unless Stannis is actually intended to be a hypocrite. I'm not sure about that.

I don't think he ever knew for sure like Ned did, as he never got a confession from Cersei. I also don't know if he had access to the book or not, but given Jon Arryn did and they were investigating together, it's likely he was aware. Even so, without the confession from Cersei, the evidence Stannis has is a bit iffy, so I think it would be correct to say he strongly suspected the children were bastards rather than that he knew they were bastards. Because without the confession he has no way of knowing for sure.

given how strongly roberts children take after him, cerseis not doing so is suspicious, dark hair will win over blond overwhelmingly often

[sifth]

6 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

given how strongly roberts children take after him, cerseis not doing so is suspicious, dark hair will win over blond overwhelmingly often

Depends on the family. My cousin has brown hair and two of her daughters are red heads and her third is a blonde. 

[Alden Rothack]

Just now, sifth said:

Depends on the family. My cousin has brown hair and two of her daughters are red heads and her third is a blonde. 

yes not three blonds, Ned and Caitlyn have a mixture of redheads and brunettes

robert has three brown haired children that we know of

[Craving Peaches]

17 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

given how strongly roberts children take after him, cerseis not doing so is suspicious, dark hair will win over blond overwhelmingly often

Issue is that if it were the case that black hair wins then almost everyone the Baratheons have ever married should all have black hair. Baratheons married Lannisters before so they should all have black hair as well. So clearly it doesn't always take precedence.

[Alden Rothack]

3 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Issue is that if it were the case that black hair wins then almost everyone the Baratheons have ever married should all have black hair. Baratheons married Lannisters before so they should all have black hair as well. So clearly it doesn't always take precedence.

firstly we don't know that they didn't and secondly we know Roberts kids do have dark hair

Gowen Baratheon is not related to any of the later lannisters,  hes a brother or cousin of the laughing storm

we can presume that the main line of house lannister is not part baratheon

[frenin]

1 hour ago, Alden Rothack said:

Except we see examples of not only them taking orders from cersei while he lived (such as during the fiasco at Darry) but counter examples of men who follow their lieges commands even after they are dead such as the Stark and rivermen who hold to robb and the stark cause generally after the red wedding

Ofc they are going to take Cersei's orders, she's Queen but what they are not going to do is ignore Robert's direct orders for Cersei's.

And Joffrey is Robert's son and king, ofc they are not going to follow Robert's lead once a new power is established.

This simply does not happen.

 

1 hour ago, Alden Rothack said:

Robert may be king but the lannisters have most of the power

This is simply untrue.

 

1 hour ago, sifth said:

Plot convenience is the short answer. The better question to ask is, how did he find out about it in the first place? That always puzzled me, because it's not a Harwin Strong type of situation, where all the kids didn't resemble either of their parents.

He was told.

Quote

"He accuses my brother and sister of incest. I wonder how he came by that suspicion."
"Perhaps he read a book and looked at the color of a bastard's hair, as Ned Stark did, and Jon Arryn before him. Or perhaps someone whispered it in his ear." The eunuch's laugh was not his usual giggle, but deeper and more throaty.
"Someone like you, perchance?" “Am I suspected? It was not me.” “If it had been, would you admit it?” [...]  Tyrion shook his head. If she had borne only one child for her husband, it would have been enough to disarm suspicion … but then she would not have been Cersei. “If you were not this whisperer, who was?” “Some traitor, doubtless.” Varys tightened the cinch. “Littlefinger?” “I named no name.”

 

[Craving Peaches]

7 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

firstly we don't know that they didn't

We don't know that they did, either. Black hair should be a much more prevalent hair colour amongst noble houses if it always 'wins' against lighter hair colours, as every time the Baratheons married into the main branch of a house that had light hair, that house would have black hair instead from that point on. And then when those houses married into other houses, same thing would occur.