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Why did Stannis not tell Robert about the Incest or warn him his Life could be in Danger?


Craving Peaches

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1 minute ago, Craving Peaches said:

We don't know that they did, either. Black hair should be a much more prevalent hair colour amongst noble houses if it always 'wins' against lighter hair colours, as every time the Baratheons married into the main branch of a house that had light hair, that house would have black hair instead from that point on. And then when those houses married into other houses, same thing would occur.

as it is and does in the real world

there are two issues one roberts children have dark hair and two none of cersei's do

even if we reject (even though we shouldn't) the idea that dark hair and blond hair will produce dark haired children, the fact that cersei's children are three for three on being lannisters is suspicious given that robert has at least three dark haired children

Put the other way does robert have any blond haired children

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3 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

there are two issues one roberts children have dark hair and two none of cersei's do

even if we reject (even though we shouldn't) the idea that dark hair and blond hair will produce dark haired children, the fact that cersei's children are three for three on being lannisters is suspicious given that robert has at least three dark haired children

Put the other way does robert have any blond haired children

The fact that the children have blond hair isn't decisive. It's the confession that counts. And the book, to a lesser extent. Without a confession, all Stannis has is suspicions. They may be well founded, but he can't know for sure. And it is unlikely to convince everyone else either, going by the hair colour alone.

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Just now, Craving Peaches said:

The fact that the children have blond hair isn't decisive. It's the confession that counts. And the book, to a lesser extent. Without a confession, all Stannis has is suspicions. They may be well founded, but he can't know for sure. And it is unlikely to convince everyone else either, going by the hair colour alone.

even with a confession it only matters if Robert lives, nobody cared very much once he died which makes sense after three centuries of targ rule

Even if Stannis gets Robert to believe it and they arrest cersei and the kingslayer on that basis which is a big if Roberts position is weak and its not completely clear what Renly does in this scenario

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3 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Immediately goes ahead with his Margaery plan because it's almost certain that Cersei will no longer be Robert's queen.

hopefully, its what he should do but then he should have backed Stannis (to get control of the royal fleet) then let the Tyrells take care of it after the lannisters are defeated

 

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2 hours ago, Alden Rothack said:

yes not three blonds, Ned and Caitlyn have a mixture of redheads and brunettes

robert has three brown haired children that we know of

Yea, but no one in my family or the person she married into has red hair, at least not in his immediate family. My point is, when it comes to hair color mother nature is a mad scientist sometimes.

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11 minutes ago, sifth said:

Yea, but no one in my family or the person she married into has red hair, at least not in his immediate family. My point is, when it comes to hair color mother nature is a mad scientist sometimes.

red and blond like green and blue eyes are related and sping up unexpectedly sometimes

but its wierd that there are five or more dark haired children of roberts and cerseis are all blond, if she had two blonds and one dark or even one dark, one blond and one red that wouldn't be suspicious

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12 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

red and blond like green and blue eyes are related and sping up unexpectedly sometimes

but its wierd that there are five or more dark haired children of roberts and cerseis are all blond, if she had two blonds and one dark or even one dark, one blond and one red that wouldn't be suspicious

GRRM's world clearly doesn't work the way our world does. The fact that there is a Baratheon gene that only produces children with black hair, is proof of that.

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2 minutes ago, sifth said:

GRRM's world clearly doesn't work the way our world does. The fact that there is a Baratheon gene that only produces children with black hair, is proof of that.

if he has black rather than dark brown hair then that will tend to happen most of the time, even if its actually brown which his blue eyes suggest then its still very likely he'll have brown or black haired children

thats the difference between starting with brown hair and having blond hair which goes brown (the lannisters being blond into adulthood is much wierder than Robert having brown or black haired kids.

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1 hour ago, Alden Rothack said:

if he has black rather than dark brown hair then that will tend to happen most of the time, even if its actually brown which his blue eyes suggest then its still very likely he'll have brown or black haired children

thats the difference between starting with brown hair and having blond hair which goes brown (the lannisters being blond into adulthood is much wierder than Robert having brown or black haired kids.

Yes all of Robert's actual children have hair that completely matches his own. Also from the history book, this seems to have always happened.

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On 11/21/2022 at 3:30 PM, Craving Peaches said:

:crying:

The issue is I believe the Author himself has confirmed Renly did not know about the incest. Also, if Renly did know he would instantly tell Robert because it almost guarantees his Margaery plan will succeed.

I've tried to find proof of that statement, and just can't. I might be typing the wrong thing into the search engine, though. Anyway, I haven't seen GRRM comment on Renly's knowledge of the twincest in any capacity. At best I think it's meant to be ambigous, but the evidence is pretty strong overall that Renly was aware of the twincest.

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4 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

but the evidence is pretty strong overall that Renly was aware of the twincest.

There's no evidence that he was aware of the twincest, none whatsoever, not even his enemies, who believe the worst of him.

Only the Fandom belief that the Tyrells would only accept his deal if the Tyrells get throne.

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5 hours ago, sifth said:

Plot convenience is the short answer. The better question to ask is, how did he find out about it in the first place? That always puzzled me, because it's not a Harwin Strong type of situation, where all the kids didn't resemble either of their parents.

I go in the oposite direction.

Jaime and Cersei were horrible in keeping the secret. Stannis, Littlefinger, Varys, Pycelee, Jon Arryn, Ned, Kevan, Tyrion, all found out.

They slept in very public places like in front of Joffrey corpses. They slept in front of a drunken passed out Robert, they did in castles they have no control like Darry, Eastmont, Wintefell and god know where else. They did in days were Cersei would be the focus of attention like her wedding day...

It's more suprising that only Stannis saw through it. Half of the Kingsguard should suspect it, Cersei's maids and etc.

The problem is that GRRM gives his villains the plot armor.

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11 minutes ago, frenin said:

There's no evidence that he was aware of the twincest, none whatsoever, not even his enemies, who believe the worst of him.

Only the Fandom belief that the Tyrells would only accept his deal if the Tyrells get throne.

Yes there is. There is simply no way whatsoever that the Tyrells would allow Magaery to become Robert's Queen if Joffrey remained the heir. That's nonsensical. Mace wants to put a Tyrell grandbaby on the throne; Margaery being Queen is fine in itself, but her sons need to stand to inherit. The Tyrells were very much aware of the twincest, or they wouldn't have moved to make Margaery Robert's Queen in place of Cersei. And if they knew about the incest, which they most definately did, then so did their main contact in Kings Landing, Renly.

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9 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

I go in the oposite direction.

Jaime and Cersei were horrible in keeping the secret. Stannis, Littlefinger, Varys, Pycelee, Jon Arryn, Ned, Kevan, Tyrion, all found out.

They slept in very public places like in front of Joffrey corpses. They slept in front of a drunken passed out Robert, they did in castles they have no control like Darry, Eastmont, Wintefell and god know where else. They did in days were Cersei would be the focus of attention like her wedding day...

It's more suprising that only Stannis saw through it. Half of the Kingsguard should suspect it, Cersei's maids and etc.

The problem is that GRRM gives his villains the plot armor.

I have to admit, that's a dam good point.

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17 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

Yes there is. There is simply no way whatsoever that the Tyrells would allow Magaery to become Robert's Queen if Joffrey remained the heir. That's nonsensical.

If Tywin thinks marrying Cersei with Viserys is good enough... Why wouldn't  the Tyrells be content with a royal marriage?

Tywin also wants the throne mind you, he will strive to get it if it's available but in the case of it being off limits, he'll get the next best thing. Yet we are to believe Mace is completely uncompromising, the throne or nothing.

Why? Well, because the fan theory says so.

 

17 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

Mace wants to put a Tyrell grandbaby on the throne; Margaery being Queen is fine in itself, but her sons need to stand to inherit.

Mace wants that with Renly and Tywin because he can ask for that, meanwhile in Robert's case we know that it was Loras and Renly the ones who were trying to get him to see their side.

So according to you, if Robert becomes single and Joffrey is still betrothed to Sansa... Mace just marries his daughter off to one of his bannermen instead of to King? That is indeed nonsensical.

 

17 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

The Tyrells were very much aware of the twincest, or they wouldn't have moved to make Margaery Robert's Queen in place of Cersei.

This is a logical fallacy,

Fact is, if Robert is to set Cersei aside, any Lord will try and get their daughters to be Queen.

When Rhaenys died, most lords of the Realm started to pimp out their daughters even tho Aegon still had Visenya and had two heirs.

The belief that Mace would not move for other thing but the throne is an idea not even the characters agree on. 

Pycelle and Cersei both believe that Margaery will end up married to Robert and they don't believe his chldren are going to be excluded from succesion, Renly blatantly states in front of Stannis that he was working to make her Robert's Queen and neither Cat nor Stannis question him.

 

17 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

And if they knew about the incest, which they most definately did, then so did their main contact in Kings Landing, Renly.

Another logical fallacy.

This is based on nothing but a persistent theory that has evolved on to fact.

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7 hours ago, sifth said:

Yes all of Robert's actual children have hair that completely matches his own. Also from the history book, this seems to have always happened.

which it strongly tends to with dark haired people

 

7 hours ago, frenin said:

There's no evidence that he was aware of the twincest, none whatsoever, not even his enemies, who believe the worst of him.

Only the Fandom belief that the Tyrells would only accept his deal if the Tyrells get throne.

I have no doubt that the Tyrells would ensure they get the throne whether the twincest is officially revealed or not

 

7 hours ago, sifth said:

I have to admit, that's a dam good point.

I presume that all the small council did know but most of them chose to keep silent because it benefitted them, the lannisters or both

However I don't think the Tyrels care because cersei's brat are in their way regardless so it only matters if it can be proved and Stark or Arryn are far more likely to be believed

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7 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

I've tried to find proof of that statement, and just can't. I might be typing the wrong thing into the search engine, though.

I had a look as well but all I could find were other people's theories on Renly. I could be wrong but I am almost certain it was something I read on this board, where someone had linked or copy pasted something where the answer was no. I will keep looking, though I did not bookmark the page so it might take a while.

7 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

but the evidence is pretty strong overall that Renly was aware of the twincest.

I just can't see how he wouldn't have told Robert in that case. Because it almost guarantees his plan to marry Margaery would work. And Renly doesn't seem to like Cersei or Joffrey, he thinks Cersei is trying to kill him, so if he had this information I don't see why he would keep it to himself, it looks to serve him far better if he reveals it as soon as possible.

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4 hours ago, Alden Rothack said:

which it strongly tends to with dark haired people

Yea, and in GRRM's world it seems to always happen with Roberts family and only Roberts family. That very much is not a real world thing.

Also Renly hated the Lannisters as much as Stannis did. Also from Renly's parlay with Stannis, he tells us that he doesn't believe in the incest and thinks it's just a convenient excuse Stannis is making up, so he can declare himself king.

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7 hours ago, sifth said:

Yea, and in GRRM's world it seems to always happen with Roberts family and only Roberts family. That very much is not a real world thing.

Also Renly hated the Lannisters as much as Stannis did. Also from Renly's parlay with Stannis, he tells us that he doesn't believe in the incest and thinks it's just a convenient excuse Stannis is making up, so he can declare himself king.

we don't know that it only happens with Baratheons, there are lots of dark haired people, the greyjoys for example

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