chrisdaw Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 3 hours ago, frenin said: He did not, he only fled because he was denied the office of Hand. He stayed until Robert went North. He does not need to defend himself while Robert is alive and in power. The Lannisters cannot attack with impunity and not that they could reach him anyway at Dragonstone and with the Royal Fleet. Fair enough on the first point, he hung around in the hope Robert would invest some trust and real power in him but no he was left completely isolated. Robert lived and ruled while JA was killed. The Lannisters literally did start a war Robert didn't allow them while he lived and ruled. There is a likelihood the secret will begin a war and he believes the Lannisters have a target on his back, that Stannis gathered strength is a perfectly reasonable response to his situation, that it meant he knew they would murder Robert is a nowhere leap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 8 hours ago, chrisdaw said: Fair enough on the first point, he hung around in the hope Robert would invest some trust and real power in him but no he was left completely isolated. Robert lived and ruled while JA was killed. The Lannisters literally did start a war Robert didn't allow them while he lived and ruled. There is a likelihood the secret will begin a war and he believes the Lannisters have a target on his back, that Stannis gathered strength is a perfectly reasonable response to his situation, that it meant he knew they would murder Robert is a nowhere leap. Robert being alive didn't stop them from invading the Riverlands and starting a war with up to three of the seven kingdoms, Stannis also knows that Robert did nothing to find and punish Jon Arryns murderers, why would he think the Lannisters wouldn't have him killed as they already had Roberts hand and beloved father figure killed and he did nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 9 hours ago, chrisdaw said: he hung around in the hope Robert would invest some trust and real power in him but no he was left completely isolated. In his own words, he already co ruled the Realm and he controlled the Navy. Not that he was completely isolated, he had two brothers he could talk to and Ned Stark was coming down south. He went to sulk. 9 hours ago, chrisdaw said: Robert lived and ruled while JA was killed Poisoned and as Hand of the King, not attacked by army that sellswords can actually protect you from. I do not know how Stannis ecpects not to suffer the same fate. 9 hours ago, chrisdaw said: The Lannisters literally did start a war Robert didn't allow them while he lived and ruled. They did not, they tried to start a war while Robert lived and ruled, and they were very much trying to get Robert's help or blessing for it, and it failed. Ned ruled against them and all Tywin could do was writing angry letters.back to Cersei. Then Robert did die and with Joffrey on the throne, they felt secure enough to start a war. 9 hours ago, chrisdaw said: There is a likelihood the secret will begin a war and he believes the Lannisters have a target on his back, that Stannis gathered strength is a perfectly reasonable response to his situation, that it meant he knew they would murder Robert is a nowhere leap. Disagree, I believe the nowhere leap is believing Stannis was afraid for his life and that's why he fled, no one even hints that in the book and we know he would have stayed if he got what felt entitled to. Unless Robert dies, mudying the succesion, there's no possibility for the Lannisters to be able to threaten him militarily, that Stannis took the Royal Fleet without Robert's leave and used it as his personal private guard is at all reasonable either. He would be in Renly's position, in which he felt confident enough to laugh at the Lannisters while Robert was in power but started fearing for his neck the minute he thought he was a goner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 41 minutes ago, frenin said: Disagree, ok 1 hour ago, Alden Rothack said: Robert being alive didn't stop them from invading the Riverlands and starting a war with up to three of the seven kingdoms, Stannis also knows that Robert did nothing to find and punish Jon Arryns murderers, why would he think the Lannisters wouldn't have him killed as they already had Roberts hand and beloved father figure killed and he did nothing Yeah I know, you seem to be agreeing with me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 18 minutes ago, chrisdaw said: ok Yeah I know, you seem to be agreeing with me? I do agree about that part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoltonBannerMan Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 As I just finished my first reread of A Game of Thrones, I think the answer is very simple: After everything Stannis went through with Robert (aka not being recognized for what he did), he simply didn't believe in Robert or was convinced that Robert would not believe him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 On 11/25/2022 at 6:00 PM, BoltonBannerMan said: As I just finished my first reread of A Game of Thrones, I think the answer is very simple: After everything Stannis went through with Robert (aka not being recognized for what he did), he simply didn't believe in Robert or was convinced that Robert would not believe him. yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 Stannis was torn between his duty to the king and his duty to his family long ago and went with family, supporting Robert instead of mad king. Now he did the same, protecting Shireen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted December 1, 2022 Author Share Posted December 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said: Now he did the same, protecting Shireen. I'm sure he could have had Shireen safely on Dragonstone while he told Robert though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said: I'm sure he could have had Shireen safely on Dragonstone while he told Robert though. But then he’d be risking his life, if he were to be prisoned or executed Shireen will be defenseless again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said: But then he’d be risking his life, if he were to be prisoned or executed Shireen will be defenseless again. Yes particularly as there is no reason to think the Fleet would go over to Shireen if he dies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 7 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said: supporting Robert instead of mad king. Now he did the same, protecting Shireen. Shireen is to Stannis what Edric Storm is to Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 32 minutes ago, frenin said: Shireen is to Stannis what Edric Storm is to Robert. Nope. Quote "Yes, Your Grace." He does not speak of me. Davos felt a moment's pity for his cellmate down in the dark. He knew he should keep silent, but he was tired and sick of heart, and he heard himself say, "Sire, Lord Florent meant no treason." "Do smugglers have another name for it? I made him Hand, and he would have sold my rights for a bowl of pease porridge. He would even have given them Shireen. Mine only child, he would have wed to a bastard born of incest." The king's voice was thick with anger. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said: Nope. Yep... How does that quote reflect any kind of love towards Shireen? It reinfirces the idea that he just sees her as an extension of himself, till he has a son. Marrying Tommen to Shireen is an insult to Stannis, not to Shireen. He views Shiren as an heir but he is not warm or caring towards her at all, hell he doesn't even talk to her, she's a fairly neglected child, just like the rest of Robert's kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alden Rothack Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 1 hour ago, frenin said: Yep... How does that quote reflect any kind of love towards Shireen? It reinfirces the idea that he just sees her as an extension of himself, till he has a son. Marrying Tommen to Shireen is an insult to Stannis, not to Shireen. He views Shiren as an heir but he is not warm or caring towards her at all, hell he doesn't even talk to her, she's a fairly neglected child, just like the rest of Robert's kids. its definitely an insult to Shireen as it implies she can't do better than one of cersei's bastards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.