House Clegane - genetics or growth disorder?

[Canon Claude]

I know we have to suspend a lot of disbelief with Gregor Clegane, but what do you think is the in-universe explanation for his freakish size?

It’s possible that he has some kind of gigantism. The raging headaches could be a symptom, but they could just as easily be due to a head injury he suffered at some point in his life.

Another thing that gives me pause on the gigantism theory is that Sandor isn’t that much smaller than him. We don’t know how big their father and grandfather were, but assuming their size is genetic, they must have been similar in height to Dunk. 

[Craving Peaches]

I think they might be genetically inclined to larger sizes but I also think Gregor might have something wrong with his pituitary gland. While Gregor and Sandor are of large stature there is no mention of their father or grandfather being of similar stature.

[sifth]

I wonder if our old friend Ser. Duncan The Tall ever visited the West.

[LongRider]

12 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I think they might be genetically inclined to larger sizes but I also think Gregor might have something wrong with his pituitary gland. While Gregor and Sandor are of large stature there is no mention of their father or grandfather being of similar stature.

Pituitary gland disorders can also cause migraine headaches and Gregor was noted to have bad headaches.  Sandor didn’t have headaches, but who knows    ?

[Alden Rothack]

17 minutes ago, sifth said:

I wonder if our old friend Ser. Duncan The Tall ever visited the West.

We know that a Baratheon married a Lannister sixty six years before cersei and Robert, the cleganes have dark hair like the baratheons and greyjoys, they also have grey eyes like greyjoys and starks

Duncan visit Lannisport as a squire and possibly after that

[astarkchoice]

My own head cannon is its a mix of nature and nurture.

Tytos lannister upjumped a kennelmaster who was probably determined to make his sons and grandsons make a name for themselves using what little he knew of breeding , feeding and training to make big strong dogs  and transfer it to kids.

He probably chose a.big strappling brienne like lass for his son to marry and breed with to make the clegane boys we know of  , instead of fancy wine and food like a elite dog breeder kept his son then grandsons on balanced high protien diets and trained them mercilessly esp focusing on  strength  and conditioning.

[Canon Claude]

26 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

My own head cannon is its a mix of nature and nurture.

Tytos lannister upjumped a kennelmaster who was probably determined to make his sons and grandsons make a name for themselves using what little he knew of breeding , feeding and training to make big strong dogs  and transfer it to kids.

He probably chose a.big strappling brienne like lass for his son to marry and breed with to make the clegane boys we know of  , instead of fancy wine and food like a elite dog breeder kept his son then grandsons on balanced high protien diets and trained them mercilessly esp focusing on  strength  and conditioning.

Presumably the kennelmaster would have to have already been an above-average sized man to begin with.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Canon Claude

[Corvo the Crow]

1 hour ago, Canon Claude said:

I know we have to suspend a lot of disbelief with Gregor Clegane, but what do you think is the in-universe explanation for his freakish size?

It’s possible that he has some kind of gigantism. The raging headaches could be a symptom, but they could just as easily be due to a head injury he suffered at some point in his life.

Another thing that gives me pause on the gigantism theory is that Sandor isn’t that much smaller than him. We don’t know how big their father and grandfather were, but assuming their size is genetic, they must have been similar in height to Dunk. 

Forget about the Clegane brothers, I want to know of their horses!

[astarkchoice]

20 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

Presumably the kennelmaster would have to have already been an above-average sized man to begin with.

Yeah probably  a big dude  too.

If you have to spend all day wrestling big agressive strong hunting dogs , dragging barrels of feed or chopping up cheap meat for the beasts as well as walking/exercise and training for hunts hed probably need to be a sturdy dude

[Alden Rothack]

14 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Forget about the Clegane brothers, I want to know of their horses!

the answer for both is the same

bigger warhorses could be bred they just cost more, I presume they do so given that people like Briene, Duncan, Sandor and the Umbers ride often

[Alden Rothack]

1 minute ago, astarkchoice said:

Yeah probably  a big dude  too.

If you have to spend all day wrestling big agressive strong hunting dogs , dragging barrels of feed or chopping up cheap meat for the beasts as well as walking/exercise and training for hunts hed probably need to be a sturdy dude

plus he lost a leg to the lion which means it reached him before it died and he survived

[Gilbert Green]

2 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

Another thing that gives me pause on the gigantism theory is that Sandor isn’t that much smaller than him.

Disagree.  Gregor is at least a foot taller than Sandor, if not more.   And while that may not sound like much in linear terms, it looks hugely different if you actually draw them and place them side by side.

Sandor falls well within the normal extremes of height.  He is not as tall as Duncan the Tall, who apparently remained healthy into old age, and died a hero at the age of 66.

Gregor, however, is freakishly big.   So I expect his freakish size exceeds the bounds of perfect health, and might have an element of something akin to gigantism.  The question is now academic, though, as he has died and become a zombie before his health problems could catch up with him.

Another character whose size is freakish, for he sex at least, is of course Brienne.  I have wondered if she is not the supposedly dead Clegane sister, picked up and adopted by the Evenstar during Robert's Rebellion. 

[sifth]

53 minutes ago, Gilbert Green said:

Disagree.  Gregor is at least a foot taller than Sandor, if not more.   And while that may not sound like much in linear terms, it looks hugely different if you actually draw them and place them side by side.

Sandor falls well within the normal extremes of height.  He is not as tall as Duncan the Tall, who apparently remained healthy into old age, and died a hero at the age of 66.

Gregor, however, is freakishly big.   So I expect his freakish size exceeds the bounds of perfect health, and might have an element of something akin to gigantism.  The question is now academic, though, as he has died and become a zombie before his health problems could catch up with him.

Another character whose size is freakish, for he sex at least, is of course Brienne.  I have wondered if she is not the supposedly dead Clegane sister, picked up and adopted by the Evenstar during Robert's Rebellion. 

Pretty sure Brienne is the great, great grand daughter to Ser Duncan the Tall.

[The Red Prince]

The cleganes are descended from First Men and Giants mixing

[Canon Claude]

2 hours ago, Gilbert Green said:

 

Another character whose size is freakish, for he sex at least, is of course Brienne.  I have wondered if she is not the supposedly dead Clegane sister, picked up and adopted by the Evenstar during Robert's Rebellion. 

That scenario feels grossly implausible. And besides, didn’t they justify Brienne’s size already? She is a descendant of Dunk.

[James Steller]

5 hours ago, Gilbert Green said:

Disagree.  Gregor is at least a foot taller than Sandor, if not more.   And while that may not sound like much in linear terms, it looks hugely different if you actually draw them and place them side by side.

Sandor falls well within the normal extremes of height.  He is not as tall as Duncan the Tall, who apparently remained healthy into old age, and died a hero at the age of 66.

Gregor, however, is freakishly big.   So I expect his freakish size exceeds the bounds of perfect health, and might have an element of something akin to gigantism.  The question is now academic, though, as he has died and become a zombie before his health problems could catch up with him.

This is why I disagree with the theory that Gregor's the result of 'breeding.' Surely you need a few more generations than that before you start producing 8-foot tall giants. Gregor's clearly got some kind of genetic issue, much like how Dunk grew to be seven feet tall. It must be a form of gigantism which is unique to GRRM's universe, though, since Dunk doesn't have the kind of headaches which Gregor has. 

[Gilbert Green]

1 hour ago, James Steller said:

This is why I disagree with the theory that Gregor's the result of 'breeding.' Surely you need a few more generations than that before you start producing 8-foot tall giants. Gregor's clearly got some kind of genetic issue, much like how Dunk grew to be seven feet tall. It must be a form of gigantism which is unique to GRRM's universe, though, since Dunk doesn't have the kind of headaches which Gregor has. 

Not sure what you mean by "breeding".  The disease of gigantism can have a genetic component.  So it could be the result of "breeding" either way.  I think Gregor comes from a very tall family, at least to the extent that he has a very tall but perfectly healthy brother.  But he is also affected by something akin to gigantism.  I'm guessing it is a fairly mild case, adding only a foot or so to his height, otherwise he would not still be healthy enough to function as an unstoppable warrior.   To put it another way, I think he more likely to be a 7' tall person with a mild case of gigantism, than an 6' tall person with a severe case of gigantism.

[James Steller]

1 minute ago, Gilbert Green said:

Not sure what you mean by "breeding".  

This: 

9 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

My own head cannon is its a mix of nature and nurture.

Tytos lannister upjumped a kennelmaster who was probably determined to make his sons and grandsons make a name for themselves using what little he knew of breeding , feeding and training to make big strong dogs  and transfer it to kids.

He probably chose a.big strappling brienne like lass for his son to marry and breed with to make the clegane boys we know of  , instead of fancy wine and food like a elite dog breeder kept his son then grandsons on balanced high protien diets and trained them mercilessly esp focusing on  strength  and conditioning.

 

[Gilbert Green]

4 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

That scenario feels grossly implausible. And besides, didn’t they justify Brienne’s size already? She is a descendant of Dunk.

Who is "they"?  I don't think Brienne is a descendant of Dunk.  And even if she is, it is more likely to be through the Cleganes than through the Evenstar.

[Gilbert Green]

1 minute ago, James Steller said:

This:

I agree that you cannot plan for someone like Gregor.  He is a freak.