Star Wars: a story for every fan? (Andor Spoilers)

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

@mormont

Your point is fair.  I enjoy “the Mandalorian” and I kind of liked “Tales of the Jedi” even if I didn’t love the animation.  There is room in a Galaxy spanning story space for cartoonish simplicity and the mature storytelling we are getting from “Andor”.

I’m going to watch the next season of “The Mandalorian”.

[Heartofice]

In reply to the point about wanting all SW to be the same, I think I am kind of in that box, but mainly it's because something like Andor feels like such an outlier and I've had 20 years of SW going in this goofy direction, and I've pretty much lost interest. Every time someone appears to take it seriously and create a realistic universe, like JJ Abrams, they end up totally screwing it up. 

I know Clone Wars is popular, but even though there are good stories buried in there, I really hate the universe as presented. It's clearly for kids, but it's so goofy and silly, and it's annoying that since the prequels we've been lumbered with this vision of the SW universe. 

[Heartofice]

Also, I just don't think there are any 'dudebros' of any weight slagging off Andor. They mostly love it. And thats understandable when you compare it to usual dross SW and Marvel are serving up. It also isn't some obvious Woke pandering like a lot of Marvel content, so why would they hate it?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

9 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Also, I just don't think there are any 'dudebros' of any weight slagging off Andor. They mostly love it. And thats understandable when you compare it to usual dross SW and Marvel are serving up. It also isn't some obvious Woke pandering like a lot of Marvel content, so why would they hate it?

There are “Dudebros of weight”?

[Heartofice]

2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

There are “Dudebros of weight”?

Lots are quite chubby

[mormont]

28 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

@mormont

Your point is fair.  I enjoy “the Mandalorian” and I kind of liked “Tales of the Jedi” even if I didn’t love the animation.  There is room in a Galaxy spanning story space for cartoonish simplicity and the mature storytelling we are getting from “Andor”.

I’m going to watch the next season of “The Mandalorian”.

My view is, real life doesn't have a consistent tone. Made up stories don't have to either.

[mormont]

(I would also like to log some complaints about the casting, direction, continuity errors and terrible plotting of real life while I'm on the topic.)

[Week]

Loved the finale. 

Only complaint is the sister and home planet plotlines fizzled. I'm sure they'll be back in the second season but they didn't really add to the story.

[mormont]

Yeah, considering that chasing his lost sister was the instigating event for everything that subsequently happened to Cassian, it's a little odd that he was basically told 'forget about her' and he just... did. She didn't even get a passing mention in the last, what, two thirds of the series?

[Relic]

I'm fine with diversity within the IP, as long as it doesn't become too interconnected. I don't want to be forced to watch something I don't like in order to understand something I enjoy. 

Andor has given me a taste for what is possible, and frankly I don't want to go back. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

16 minutes ago, Relic said:

I'm fine with diversity within the IP, as long as it doesn't become too interconnected. I don't want to be forced to watch something I don't like in order to understand something I enjoy. 

Andor has given me a taste for what is possible, and frankly I don't want to go back. 

I love Andor and it’s take.  That said I agree with Mormont that there is room here for lots of visions.

[Ran]

I don't think anyone is really saying that mature, adult-centered dramas are the only thing Disney should make. But they certainly should make more like Andor. One of these in every four new shows would be alright with me.

[Lord Varys]

Guys, I liked the show best of the new material. It is pretty great. But I still have issues with certain aspects of it. That's not 'evil gatekeeping' stuff but simply me giving you my opinion.

I'm not saying you cannot like this show because I've issue with this or that minor aspects of it.

The fact that the things didn't intersect all that well in the end, and that the Rebels are mostly painted as terrorists willing and capable of murdering their own colleagues doesn't mean the story or characters of the show sucked. It could have been better if there had been more substance/depth to some of that, and if the scope had been broader.

I wanted to see Rebels who are actually in the movement because they believe in certain political ideologies, philosophies, etc. ... basically THE REPUBLIC. I also wanted people who oppose 'the evil Galactic Empire' to give us good arguments as to why Emperor Palpatine and the political system he established have to be overthrown.

I'm not opposed to seeing the Empire brutalize people. But that's nothing new. What's great in Andor to see how this is done on the different levels of society. What they didn't do but should have done is to show the Empire's presence on a Core World like Chandrila. We get a lot about Chandrilan culture, but why didn't we get an episode or two where Mon goes back home (with her family) and we see and hear how Imperial Chandrila looks like? Are the people there treated like the folks on Ferrix, or is it different there? If many Chandrilans share Mon's and Vel's anti-Imperial views show and tell us why this is the case. Ditto with Alderaan which we saw in the Obi-Wan show and which seems to be still the beautiful and complacent place it was in the Republic era. Do the majority of the Alderaanians and Chandrilans profit from Palpatine's rule, or are they actually suffering?

It would be great to explore such things as well as the lives of the people at the very edge of society - because that's what Star Wars has done since forever. Most of the story take place in the lawless Outer Rim, etc.

2 hours ago, Week said:

Only complaint is the sister and home planet plotlines fizzled. I'm sure they'll be back in the second season but they didn't really add to the story.

I was surprised about the latter since we really don't understand why Cassian had to be taken in by these guys, nor why he apparently never returned to get his sister out if life with Maarva was better, etc.

That his sister disappears from his mind does make a lot of sense considering what happened to him. Although it is clearly a dangling plotline they should have come back to. It is odd that Maarva wouldn't mention her in her last message or when Cassian came back earlier. If there is some plot to her whereabouts, it should have come up.

If this thing is a pretty big success they should make more seasons than just two. One fears that rushing through things after the first season was very slow isn't likely to make it a very balanced show.

[Corvinus85]

5 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I was surprised about the latter since we really don't understand why Cassian had to be taken in by these guys, nor why he apparently never returned to get his sister out if life with Maarva was better, etc.

That his sister disappears from his mind does make a lot of sense considering what happened to him. Although it is clearly a dangling plotline they should have come back to. It is odd that Maarva wouldn't mention her in her last message or when Cassian came back earlier. If there is some plot to her whereabouts, it should have come up.

Maarva did tell Cassian when last they spoke to stop looking for his sister because no one else survived due to whatever toxic incident occurred. Of course, that's just what she believes. Her info may not be accurate. We don't know if Cassian believed her, either. He could have been trying to follow a lead on Niamos before he got arrested.

[Lord Varys]

9 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Maarva did tell Cassian when last they spoke to stop looking for his sister because no one else survived due to whatever toxic incident occurred. Of course, that's just what she believes. Her info may not be accurate. We don't know if Cassian believed her, either. He could have been trying to follow a lead on Niamos before he got arrested.

I meant that their last conversation could have included her revealing new information she had kept from him earlier.

One imagines that would have been the take on things if they wanted Cassian to go look for her. In context, though, it is actually not bad writing to give Cassian some motivation to do things prior to his Rebel career which yields nothing and is just the wish or desire of a guy who lost his birth family.

[JGP]

20 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I wanted to see Rebels who are actually in the movement because they believe in certain political ideologies, philosophies, etc. ... basically THE REPUBLIC. I also wanted people who oppose 'the evil Galactic Empire' to give us good arguments as to why Emperor Palpatine and the political system he established have to be overthrown.

I wonder if you realize that's what the show is building toward. So far we're seeing the cradle kicks of the, as yet, nascent Rebel organization. And it's decidedly not centralized. Yet.

Look at Cassian's fellows as examples of how they'll eventually be brought into the fold, or Bix in particular. I'm very much looking forward to see how her arc continues next season [if she isn't one of the more militant, I might be some disappointed] then compare to Brasso.   

[Corvinus85]

7 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I meant that their last conversation could have included her revealing new information she had kept from him earlier.

One imagines that would have been the take on things if they wanted Cassian to go look for her. In context, though, it is actually not bad writing to give Cassian some motivation to do things prior to his Rebel career which yields nothing and is just the wish or desire of a guy who lost his birth family.

But that was their last conversation. So only the message after her death was the only remaining opportunity.

[sifth]

My own theory is that Kleya will somehow end up being Andor's sister.

[Lord Varys]

26 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

But that was their last conversation. So only the message after her death was the only remaining opportunity.

Ah, okay, I have to rewatch the show. I only watched it once so far. I thought they talked about his sister before he left for the heist thing, not after his return to Ferrix after the heist.

[Heartofice]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

I wanted to see Rebels who are actually in the movement because they believe in certain political ideologies, philosophies, etc. ... basically THE REPUBLIC.

Didn’t we have plenty of that earlier on in the season from the now deceased Karis? Why does there need to be any more of that? Don’t most rebellions just want freedom? Isn’t that enough. They are reacting to oppression and want to end it, it’s hardly unusual that there is no over arching philosophy behind it for many of them. It’s already been established that there are many disparate groups out there trying to rebel and I’m sure they all have different goals and ideas for the future. Luthen’s main aim is simply to stir up anger and create a reaction and bring together all that anger and direct it. That is the first step.

 

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

What they didn't do but should have done is to show the Empire's presence on a Core World like Chandrila. We get a lot about Chandrilan culture, but why didn't we get an episode or two where Mon goes back home (with her family) and we see and hear how Imperial Chandrila looks like?

I’m not sure how you would fit this in or why. The show already jumps around numerous worlds showing how the Empirr operates. In fact it’s maybe the shows greatest strength that it makes the viewer understand what they are rebelling against. There doesn’t seem any value in belabouring the point. 

 

2 hours ago, Ran said:

I don't think anyone is really saying that mature, adult-centered dramas are the only thing Disney should make. But they certainly should make more like Andor. One of these in every four new shows would be alright with me.

We’ve always had different tales on SW and that is fine. I grew up watching Droids, Ewoks and Caravan of Courage so am well versed in crappy childish versions of the universe. I do kind of feel like the Prequels have set the tone for the universe and it can’t be undone. Andor only sort of hints at the Prequel universe and takes enough to make it feel related, but otherwise it feels much closer to OT. In comparison Clone Wars is clearly an extension of the prequels and it can’t escape it. 
 

I’d love for Andor to cause a directional shift in SW so we get much more adult, gritty and clever content. I’m optimistic it will happen.