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Star Wars: a story for every fan? (Andor Spoilers)


Ser Scot A Ellison
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Episodes 7 and 8 of "The Bad Batch" are, indeed,  good.Though it seems a bit too early to want to phase the Clone Troopers out. It has been, what, only a year or so since the end of the Clone Wars? Even with accelerated aging, there should be about a decade of use left in the clones, who should also be cheaper to maintain than volonteers, who'd want a decent pay. And most of them do seem to obediently follow orders, with just a few who had been in more elevated positions having second thoughts.

Oh, and it didn't come across at all  in that earlier episode that Rampart was destroying Caminoan civilization in general, rather than just the clone labs and training facilities. In fact, Camino always seemed more like a scientific/industrial outpost than an actual homeworld of Camninoans.

 

On 2/8/2023 at 5:20 AM, Rubicante said:

I thought the political aspect of the PT made sense to me.  Palpatine/Sidious creates a "crisis" on Naboo with the Trade Federation so that he can gain sympathy in being voted in as Supreme Chancellor.

The crisis should have been about something understandable. What are the trade lanes, which IIRC nobody ever uses on-screen?  Why would the Trade Federation have any claim on them? Etc, etc. This must be some rabid fan old EU stuff, which is completely impenetrable to a casual watcher and which got rightly satirized in the many hot takes on the prequels.

What is even worse is that throughout TPM Palpatine constantly tries to stop and kill Padme, even to the extent of revealing the Sith existence to the Jedi... but in fact he really needed her to suceed to get voted in! He is basically a fool failing upwards rather than any kind of cunning mastermind. IIRC nearly the same thing happens in AOTC with Obi-wan.

 

On 2/8/2023 at 5:20 AM, Rubicante said:

 

  Palpatine/Sidious orchestrates the Clone Wars, so that he "reluctantly" has to accept emergency powers to ensure that the Republic will be safe.  And the longer the Clone Wars last, the more he can justify having increased political power, because it allows him to act quickly for the benefit of the Republic.  Isn't this a very real thing in our world, even today?  Leaders use war as excuse to grant themselves more power?

 

Absolutely, but everything about the creation of the clone army, how it could have been paid for by one rogue Jedi(!) and how the Jedi just accepted them without looking deeper into it and them is just stupid. Not to mention the whole rather obvious problem of how  clones are slaves, yet it gets completely ignored by the protagonists. I mean, of course  droids were already unaknowledged slaves, but it got even more blatant with clones, who are human.

 

On 2/8/2023 at 5:20 AM, Rubicante said:

  Because he did not begin his Jedi training until after TPM, he had already formed an emotional attachment to his mother, and basically was forced to give this up to train as a Jedi.  When his mom dies, he blames himself, and vows not to let it happen to Padme.

Except that this is a really stupid idea, both in general and in particular. And entirely caused by Lucas having re-watched "Citizen Kane" at an inopportune time. As is the  "Chosen One" being ruined by attachment to those pesky women crap. In fact the whole notion that Annakin needed to be "shattered" by his separation from his mother to go bad and that he had to be a small child because a teenager wouldn't care(!) is just so very bad.

Concerning implementation, it is entirely incredible that  Nabooans wouldn't have immediately bought Shmi's freedom to reward Annakin, and if they had proved implausibly ungrateful, a fraction of Padme's clothing budget would have sufficed. Shmi should have been comfortably settled on Naboo. But of course Lucas painted himself into a corner there because he chose the "remember this!" path and set TPM on Tatooine, as well as neglected to provide Annakin with a brother.

 

On 2/8/2023 at 5:20 AM, Rubicante said:

 The only "solution" presented to him is what Palpatine suggests in the opera house scene.  He mainly turns because the Dark Side of the Force is the only option he thinks he has available to him.

Except that Sith have never been known to be in the business of saving lives or being able to ensure even their own safety, so it was completely ridiculous.

Particularly since there were far better and far more plausible motivations for Annakin's fall peeking through here and there - disgust with the unwieldliness and corruption of the Republic, frequent impotence of the Jedi, him getting brutalized through a lengthy, bloody war, all of which led to the desire for a strong hand that would bring clear order into things. All very relateable and in fact how dictatorships tend to happen iRL.

The biggest problem of the prequels is, though, that dynamics between Obi-Wan, Annakin and Padme just don't work. There is no great friendship between the former 2, they barely like each other most of the time and Annie is consistently a brat. His fall doesn't come across as a terrible tragedy and ruin of a great man, but as something completely expected.  The "romance" between the latter 2 is creepy and embarassing. Not to mention that Padme is a non-entity, who was a queen because remember? Leia was a princess!  Apparently in Lucas's view women needed to be royal  to bring anything to the table in SW. Even so, he failed to find anything for her to do after the first film, even after re-branding her into a senator, because he made her a politician and then was unable to do political plots. There was such a golden opportunity for  tragedy there if Padme had been the one who was a supporter of Palpatine at first and brought him and Annakin together, only to then to gradually begin to see through him and eventually oppose him, but had been unable to pull her husband back from the brink.

Concerning younglings, they just shouldn't have existed in this form, nor should Jedi have numbered in the thousands and been as well-known as they became in the PT, only to be almost completely forgotten less than 2 decades later. Yoda's statement that Luke's father had been too old for training should have just remained yet another inconsistency, of a myriad of them.

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2 hours ago, Maia said:

Particularly since there were far better and far more plausible motivations for Annakin's fall peeking through here and there - disgust with the unwieldliness and corruption of the Republic, frequent impotence of the Jedi, him getting brutalized through a lengthy, bloody war, all of which led to the desire for a strong hand that would bring clear order into things. All very relateable and in fact how dictatorships tend to happen iRL.

Indeed. I believe Dooku's stated reasons for leaving the Jedi were the first two (which allowed Sidious to tempt him with the offer of that strong hand), and all three of them contributed to Ahsoka's departure.

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Why get rid of the clones so early into the Empire? They're a loose end. That's why.

 

 

 

And yeah, it can get rough when this show is focused on the main characters...especially when it seems like they're on the verge of doing something interesting and nascent Rebellion adjacent...what with Echo leaving with Rex and Omega seeming to ask some of the questions that Echo had been asking...

 

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The latest episode of The Bad Batch concludes nicely another set of filler episodes. Not much else to say. 

I've re-watched season 1 & 2 and 2.5 of The Mandalorian. I'm excited for next week.

It would sure be nice if we could start a new thread right as the season begins. So on that note, the sequel trilogy... thoughts?

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13 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

The latest episode of The Bad Batch concludes nicely another set of filler episodes. Not much else to say. 

I've re-watched season 1 & 2 and 2.5 of The Mandalorian. I'm excited for next week.

It would sure be nice if we could start a new thread right as the season begins. So on that note, the sequel trilogy... thoughts?

We can always just start a dedicated thread for Mandalorian. 

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There's nothing wrong with Bad Batch having filler episodes. Given the timeline (17-18 years before the Battle of Yavin at this point), they really can't have anything momentous or too many really big wins for the good guys, so they're going to have to settle for eking out personal victories and helping people in small ways here and there.

Although I do wonder if the show's main purpose is setting up a late-twentysomething Omega to show up in The Mandalorian or Ahsoka). 

I'm still wondering if my personal theory that Omega was actually an attempt to create a Force-sensitive clone could be in play here. The acrobatics in the last episode were a bit too insane to be fully sellable for a non-Force-user (although granted it's a cartoon, and they do exaggerate such things).

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6 hours ago, Werthead said:

I'm still wondering if my personal theory that Omega was actually an attempt to create a Force-sensitive clone could be in play here. The acrobatics in the last episode were a bit too insane to be fully sellable for a non-Force-user (although granted it's a cartoon, and they do exaggerate such things).

I'm still waiting for the shoe to drop because Omega blabbed what she was in front of the former senator of Kamino who no doubt has told the scientist from season 1 about it, who's currently forced to help the Empire with their cloning program.

Btw, there's a theory online that Cid has already betrayed the team, and that sending to that planet to mine ipsium may have been a set up. 

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1 hour ago, Myshkin said:

Okay I’m a little behind, but I just finished Andor, and it’s literally the best thing they’ve ever done with Star Wars. And I will not hear any argument against it.

If only I could insert the “One of us!” GIF here.

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10 hours ago, Myshkin said:

Okay I’m a little behind, but I just finished Andor, and it’s literally the best thing they’ve ever done with Star Wars. And I will not hear any argument against it.

That’s only because it is true.  “Andor” is the best Star Wars I have seen in 45 years.  I’m 52 in two months.

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10 hours ago, Myshkin said:

Okay I’m a little behind, but I just finished Andor, and it’s literally the best thing they’ve ever done with Star Wars. And I will not hear any argument against it.

So say we all.

 

Wait... Wrong franchise.

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20 hours ago, Werthead said:

I'm still wondering if my personal theory that Omega was actually an attempt to create a Force-sensitive clone could be in play here. The acrobatics in the last episode were a bit too insane to be fully sellable for a non-Force-user (although granted it's a cartoon, and they do exaggerate such things).

I think along those lines, too. It is pretty subtle so far, but we still have no clue what's so special about Omega (including why she is a girl). She did enjoy meditating with the Wookiee youngling, and she is clearly more capable than a normal child would be. And they are obviously going to eventually get back to Nala Se and whatever she is doing for the Empire now - which means they will also get back to what kind of clone Omega actually is.

She could end up being tutored by Ahsoka between TBB and Rebels since we have no reason to believe that Bail Organa only got Ahsoka back into the game in 1-2 years before Rebels. She didn't seem to have spent *that much time* with the locals in that episode from 'Tales of the Jedi'.

But I think before we see an adult Omega there would also be room for another show with Omega and, perhaps, what remains of the Bad Batch, during the Rebels and OT era. Omega would be old enough in that era to act as a special Rebel operative, etc.

There would be potential to have a show picking up things where Rebels left them dangling - continuing the stories of Sabine, Hera, Zeb, etc. as well as that of Omega and Ahsoka.

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4 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

That’s only because it is true.  “Andor” is the best Star Wars I have seen in 45 years.  I’m 52 in two months.

The best decision Lucasfilm has ever made is bringing Diego Luna into Star Wars. He’s an incredible actor (tbf, I’ve been slightly obsessed with him since Y Tu Mama Tambien came out). Now here’s hoping that they get Gael Garcia Bernal to at least make a cameo in season two.

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More and more they seem to be pushing to have Omega joining a Rebels cell, and/or running one at some point. That's the vibe I keep getting. Even though recent episodes have been, "filler", there is a strong undercurrent of Omega needing to do more for people.  

 

My tinfoil hat theory now, and I know it's not going to happen, is that by the time of Scariff, Omega is the shadowy good guy pulling the strings of the Rebellion, kinda like an anti-Palpatine...

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On 2/24/2023 at 2:22 PM, Werthead said:

There's nothing wrong with Bad Batch having filler episodes. Given the timeline (17-18 years before the Battle of Yavin at this point), they really can't have anything momentous or too many really big wins for the good guys, so they're going to have to settle for eking out personal victories and helping people in small ways here and there.

Although I do wonder if the show's main purpose is setting up a late-twentysomething Omega to show up in The Mandalorian or Ahsoka). 

I'm still wondering if my personal theory that Omega was actually an attempt to create a Force-sensitive clone could be in play here. The acrobatics in the last episode were a bit too insane to be fully sellable for a non-Force-user (although granted it's a cartoon, and they do exaggerate such things).

 

On 2/24/2023 at 4:48 PM, Maltaran said:

My main thought from the last episode was wondering if the boy is in any way connected to Ezra, solely because of the purple hair

What're the odds omega is Ezra's mom via purple hair boy. would that timeline work? She's gotta be force sensitive IMO

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