The single most unsung hero of the series: Mirri Maaz Duur

[Tyrosh Lannister]

The Dothraki horde invaded her city, raped her, destroyed the temples and homes, killed all its people, her friends and neighbours, raped the women and carried off the survivors into slavery.

She made the Khal a vegetable. She also unintentionally killed his dead baby son ***, the "stallion who mounts the word", so he will not burn any nations or kill any more people. Rhaego was prophesized to be a guy who's going to commit mass genocide. She ensured the world would be much safer without him. Plus, she ensured some form of justice for her own people. She avenged them.

***Dany entered the tent to give birth when the maegi told her not to while the blood ritual was going on. Doing that killed Rhaego. Even if Mirri intentionally killed Rhaego, it was totally justified. 

Quote

 

"The stallion who mounts the world will burn no cities now. His khalasar shall trample no nations into dust."

"I spoke for you," [Dany] said, anguished. "I saved you."

"Saved me?" The Lhazareen woman spat. "Three riders had taken me, not as a man takes a woman but from behind, as a dog takes a bitch. The fourth was in me when you rode past. How then did you save me? I saw my god's house burn, where I had healed good men beyond counting. My home they burned as well, and in the street I saw piles of heads. I saw the head of a baker who made my bread. I saw the head of a boy I had saved from deadeye fever, only three moons past. I heard children crying as the riders drove them off with their whips. Tell me a gain what you saved."

"Your life."

Mirri Maz Duur laughed cruelly. "Look to your khal and see what life is worth, when all the rest is gone.

 

 

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

100%. Drogo deserved and needed to die.

[Kierria]

Mirri Maaz Duur was an evil witch who deserved to burn at the stake.  And she did.  She betrayed Daenerys Targaryen and all those who do that get executed.  Mirri murdered Prince Rhaego Targaryen who was an innocent baby. 

[Aebram]

30 minutes ago, Kierria said:

Mirri Maaz Duur was an evil witch who deserved to burn at the stake.  And she did.  She betrayed Daenerys Targaryen and all those who do that get executed.  Mirri murdered Prince Rhaego Targaryen who was an innocent baby. 

I don't think the situation is so clear-cut.

Mirri warned Daenerys not to enter Drogo's tent while she was healing him. When Jorah carried Daenerys into the tent, Mirri may have been at a point in the ritual where she could not stop to order him back out. And it might have been too late; perhaps even a moment inside the tent was enough to sacrifice Rhaego's life. So the baby's death was an accident, caused in part by the actions of Jorah, Daenerys, and Mirri.  Or perhaps, like many Targaryen babies, Rhaego was so deformed and inhuman that he would never have survived.

The situation with Drogo looks to me like a classic "deal with the devil." Daenerys asked Mirri to save Drogo's life, and that's exactly what she did: no more, no less. Considering all the murders, rapes, and pillaging that Drogo was responsible for, his fate can be considered justice, or a simple casualty of war.  Let's remember that, earlier in the story, Mirri had given Drogo a treatment that would have healed his wound. But in his arrogance, he ignored her instructions. He has some responsibility for his own fate.

[Gilbert Green]

Mirri and Dany are peas in a pod, caught up in cycles of vengeance.  But Mirri is not a hero.

[Raven Princling]

Mirri was absolutely justified in her murder of Drogo. His khalasar went through tribes killing, raping and enslaving. And they would have done much more harm had Drogo lived. I always understood her motivations in that regard.

Rhaego is a much more complicated argument imo (assuming she actually killed him). On one hand, he was an innocent baby who did no wrong and there is no telling how he would have turned out. On the other, he was prophesized to be the stallion who mounts the world and would have been worse than Drogo. And there is also the fact that if Mirri had failed in her murders, Rhaego would have grown up among Dothraki, would have been influenced by his father which would most likely lead to him being like Drogo regardless of Dany's influence. 

To any Dany fans that justify her every move, just remember this: Drogo enslaved people.  He did the very thing Dany ended up fighting against. 

 

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

Quite frankly I can’t think of any reason why the Dothraki as a culture don’t deserve to die out. Same for the Ironborn, as much as I personally enjoy reading about them. If Rhaego had lived, chances are he wouldn’t been way too close to Drogo. Given the culture he would’ve be brought up in. I can’t condemn MMD for taking Justice on Drogo and preventing more injustice in the future. Plus, as others said, Rhaego could’ve been deformed and dead already.

[Gilbert Green]

Just now, Raven Princling said:

Mirri was absolutely justified in her murder of Drogo.

She did not murder him. She (sort of) saved his life.  And (apparently) murdered Dany's infant, or at least took credit for it.

[Raven Princling]

1 minute ago, Gilbert Green said:

She did not murder him. She (sort of) saved his life.  And (apparently) murdered Dany's infant, or at least took credit for it.

I always took her making Drogo into a vegetable as a murder in a way- he was barely human. I worded it wrong tho.

[Gilbert Green]

58 minutes ago, Raven Princling said:

I always took her making Drogo into a vegetable as a murder in a way- he was barely human. I worded it wrong tho.

Even if Drogo's vegetable existence was equivalent to death, she still did not cause his death.  He was dying anyway.  If his vegetable life is worth nothing, then all it means is that she failed to save him.  It still does not mean that she killed him.

[Raven Princling]

9 minutes ago, Gilbert Green said:

Even if Drogo's vegetable existence was equivalent to death, she still did not cause his death.  He was dying anyway.  If his vegetable life is worth nothing, then all it means is that she failed to save him.  It still does not mean that she killed him.

It's just the way I always saw it personally. Not as a "kill" in a usual, direct sense- he was functioning biologically, but she took everything else. I could have worded myself better and not used the word "murder" tho.

[The Sleeper]

Well, Drogo was dying, so him becoming a vegetable, but a stable one, is an improvement. 

Ultimately, I see he whole deal as a fuck-up. Mirri did what she set out to do. The stallion just wasn't enough to fully revive Drogo, or maybe he had already suffered brain damage, which needed to be treated separately from his chest wound, but it comes down to the same thing. She was Dany's slave and did what was told.

The ritual worked the same for Rhaego and the eggs as well. It took the life of the living unborn foetus and gave it to the dead unborn dragons. 

The rest is Mirri being bitter after getting all the blame for doing as she was ordered, while the rest of the parties involved did the exact opposite of her instructions. She also, justifiably felt indignant at the notion that she should have been grateful to Dany. 

The only thing that I can ascribe her being disingenuous about, is that she was probably aware that the stallion wasn't going to cut it, but couldn't bring herself to suggest a living human to be sacrificed instead, she is after all a healer. Dany would have done it in her desperation. Her son's life was on the line. And it would have been Mirri's fellow slaves that would have gotten the axe. 

[SeanF]

Mirri had reason to take revenge on Drogo.

Killing Rhaego, OTOH, was unjustified revenge.  (And the App does state that she killed Rhaego out of revenge).

Killing an infant on the basis of what it *might* do in the future is Tywin Lannister’s logic.

[The Sleeper]

11 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Mirri had reason to take revenge on Drogo.

Killing Rhaego, OTOH, was unjustified revenge.  (And the App does state that she killed Rhaego out of revenge).

Killing an infant on the basis of what it *might* do in the future is Tywin Lannister’s logic.

That simply doesn't add up. She explicitly and in no uncertain terms told Dany to not go into the tent. 

[SeanF]

Just now, The Sleeper said:

That simply doesn't add up. She explicitly and in no uncertain terms told Dany to not go into the tent. 

Well, if the author of the tale has clarified this point, I’m not going to dispute him.  

I don’t think it makes much difference if she was inside or outside the tent.  Rhaego’s life was exchanged for Drogo’s.

[The Sleeper]

Just now, SeanF said:

Well, if the author of the tale has clarified this point, I’m not going to dispute him.  

I don’t think it makes much difference if she was inside or outside the tent.  Rhaego’s life was exchanged for Drogo’s.

Martin wrote the app? 

[SeanF]

5 minutes ago, The Sleeper said:

Martin wrote the app? 

It was based upon his notes, and the answers he gave to questions, and has his approval. There are four separate entries which state MMD killed Rhaego.

And her motivations are plain.  Revenge, and her desire to prevent Baby Hitler.

[Tyrosh Lannister]

33 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Mirri had reason to take revenge on Drogo.

Killing Rhaego, OTOH, was unjustified revenge.  (And the App does state that she killed Rhaego out of revenge).

Killing an infant on the basis of what it *might* do in the future is Tywin Lannister’s logic.

This is a world where magic exists , where people believe in prophecies. 

 

[The Sleeper]

49 minutes ago, SeanF said:

It was based upon his notes, and the answers he gave to questions, and has his approval. There are four separate entries which state MMD killed Rhaego.

And her motivations are plain.  Revenge, and her desire to prevent Baby Hitler.

The same could be said for the show. Ok, that's a cheap shot. 

The app also says that Ned is Jon's father and Young Griff is Rhaegar's son. It is meant to be a compilation of what is written in the books from the perspective in the books. There are tons of stuff that Martin leaves deliberately ambiguous. 

Furthermore, I doubt that Martin read and signed off on every single entry so there is room for interpretation from the person who actually wrote it.

This is of course speculation. For all I know, Martin wrote those particular entries himself. In which case, touché. 

In short, the app is a perfectly fine resource, but it doesn't override the actual books. 

In this particular case, there are some things that makes me think that this is the interpretation of the person who wrote the app. For instance, it reads that Mirri offered to perform the ritual. That is not quite right. Dany practically begged her to do it. You could argue that she expected her to do that and that would be a solid argument if her behavior up to that moment didn't point to her being legit. Another thing that the app reads that is not quite like the book is that Mirri admits culpability. That is not actually true. What she says is that it was her god's will. 

As to the actual story, there are also some other facts that cast shadows on this. If Mirri actually wanted Rhaego dead, she didn't have to do anything. As a newborn, with Drogo dead, he was basically doomed. The new khals would have killed him.

Also, while bitter and resentful, Mirri is not suicidal. In the next chapter, she bargains for her life. You could throw in the welfare of her surviving enslaved compatriots. After this, Eoreh was gang raped and murdered. So, she had very strong motivation to succeed.

There are also some other questions that need addressing. If it didn't matter if Dany was in the tent or not, why did Mirri sent her away when Dany insisted being there? Why did Rhaego, an apparently healthy foetus until that point, came to resemble a long dead dragon? And why did Dany felt heat from the dragon eggs after the ritual?

In truth, at first my understanding was exactly like yours. But later all these things didn't add up for me. 

[Tyrosh Lannister]

4 minutes ago, The Sleeper said:

The same could be said for the show. Ok, that's a cheap shot. 

The app also says that Ned is Jon's father and Young Griff is Rhaegar's son. It is meant to be a compilation of what is written in the books from the perspective in the books. There are tons of stuff that Martin leaves deliberately ambiguous. 

Furthermore, I doubt that Martin read and signed off on every single entry so there is room for interpretation from the person who actually wrote it.

This is of course speculation. For all I know, Martin wrote those particular entries himself. In which case, touché. 

In short, the app is a perfectly fine resource, but it doesn't override the actual books. 

In this particular case, there are some things that makes me think that this is the interpretation of the person who wrote the app. For instance, it reads that Mirri offered to perform the ritual. That is not quite right. Dany practically begged her to do it. You could argue that she expected her to do that and that would be a solid argument if her behavior up to that moment didn't point to her being legit. Another thing that the app reads that is not quite like the book is that Mirri admits culpability. That is not actually true. What she says is that it was her god's will. 

As to the actual story, there are also some other facts that cast shadows on this. If Mirri actually wanted Rhaego dead, she didn't have to do anything. As a newborn, with Drogo dead, he was basically doomed. The new khals would have killed him.

Also, while bitter and resentful, Mirri is not suicidal. In the next chapter, she bargains for her life. You could throw in the welfare of her surviving enslaved compatriots. After this, Eoreh was gang raped and murdered. So, she had very strong motivation to succeed.

There are also some other questions that need addressing. If it didn't matter if Dany was in the tent or not, why did Mirri sent her away when Dany insisted being there? Why did Rhaego, an apparently healthy foetus until that point, came to resemble a long dead dragon? And why did Dany felt heat from the dragon eggs after the ritual?

In truth, at first my understanding was exactly like yours. But later all these things didn't add up for me. 

What app is this? Was it personally reviewed and okay'd by GRRM?