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Freedom of speech and Literature


Mosi Mynn
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8 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I simply asked whether death threats were attempts at censorship, and you answered no. It seemed to rile you for some reason despite it being a pretty simple question. Glad we cleared it up.

Does it depend on whether they are being made against Megan, Duchess of Sussex? Because I seem to remember you saying in the past that she should shut up and keep quiet.

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10 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Context matters. Death threats can be motivated by a desire to censor someone, but censorship has a specific meaning independent of a death threat. 

Sure and the context in this case is death threats sent to JK Rowling in an attempt to stop her talking, to suppress her point of view. 

10 hours ago, Zorral said:

Why not look up 'death threat' and 'censorship' in the OED?  These terms do not go in the same groupings of things that are alike.

Hmmm. Good idea:
Censorship
https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803095558166
Number 3 definition I think is most appropriate:
 
"The practice and process of suppression or any particular instance of this. This may involve the partial or total suppression of any text or the entire output of an individual or organization on a limited or permanent basis."

Threat

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/threat
"statement in which you tell somebody that you will punish or harm them, especially if they do not do what you want"

So threatening to punish or harm JK Rowling, especially if she does not do what you want ie. stop speaking on the gender debate, is a way to surpress the output of that individual on a limited or even permanent basis. 

Basically there seems to be a claim that JK Rowling was never censored and so it throws out the idea that there is any sort of issue around free speech on this topic. Except that there were clearly many very serious attempts to censor her and prevent her from speaking on the issue, it's just that these attempts were unsuccessful. She decided to keep speaking on the matter despite the risk to her own life. How many other people are not able to say the same?
 

10 hours ago, Zorral said:

Rowling, the subject of the thread, can enable thousands to feel they can hurt, harm, be cruel to, even kill others because they aren't --what? persons? women? men? is just so effed up as to be unnatural.


Hmm, citation needed here. This is just a wild baseless claim thrown at Rowling that isn't really based on anything. Much like the claim that she is 'anti trans'. Neither of which is true, she simply holds a pretty standard gender critical position; basically that sex is real and a biological fact and shouldn't be conflated with gender identity, a belief that is protected by the equality act in the UK. Again there is a lot to say on the topic but she (and basically all gender critical feminists who are smeared as TERFS) is mostly totally misrepresented in what they actually believe. 

That people are willing to send her death threats to shut her up is really down the gender ideologue's attempt to shut down any criticism of any extreme gender ideology as 'anti trans'. Here in the UK we have someone like Owen Jones who will throw the term out with wild abandon to anyone who disagrees with him, because it makes it easier to demonise them and dismiss what they are saying. Once you have done that it becomes much easier to prevent someone from speaking. 

And from the other side of the aisle, the right are doing the exact same thing with the 'Groomer' label, which is exactly the same tactic and also completely abhorrent. 

This is why I wanted to know whether people agreed that death threats were a form of censorship, because it does seem to be that some people seem to really struggle with the concept. 

 

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20 minutes ago, A wilding said:

Does it depend on whether they are being made against Megan, Duchess of Sussex? Because I seem to remember you saying in the past that she should shut up and keep quiet.

I don't think I ever seriously suggested that she shouldn't be allowed to speak. I am all for her speaking as much as possible because every time she does speak she exposes her own narcissism. 

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1 hour ago, Crixus said:

And as @Zorral said, if you can simply step back and look at people as people, rather than boxing them into one dimensional categories, I'd wager empathy and understanding would be far easier to come by. I mean, I tried doing that in this very post, with my layered description of another poster :P

The problem I see here is that we sometimes only see that the other side is lacking that ability. But we should also hold those to account who are perceived to be on our side. Otherwise every discussion, even internal will be suppressed.

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3 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I don't think I ever seriously suggested that she shouldn't be allowed to speak. I am all for her speaking as much as possible because every time she does speak she exposes her own narcissism. 

In doing so she also tends to expose the narcissism and  hypocrisy of those that try to keep her quiet. Sort of like Twitter,we get the good with the bad.

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3 minutes ago, maarsen said:

In doing so she also tends to expose the narcissism and  hypocrisy of those that try to keep her quiet. Sort of like Twitter,we get the good with the bad.

Er.. maybe in some small part.. but mainly she just shows her true character to the world, despite enormous efforts to appear otherwise.

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4 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Er.. maybe in some small part.. but mainly she just shows her true character to the world, despite enormous efforts to appear otherwise.

I agree -- JKR has fully unmasked her bigotry. It's a sad sight.

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She is a minor actor married to a now minor member of the royal family. A fart in Windsor Castle carries more significance than anything she says. I could never understand the conniptions and knickers twisting she seems to cause. 

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Just now, maarsen said:

She is a minor actor married to a now minor member of the royal family. A fart in Windsor Castle carries more significance than anything she says. I could never understand the conniptions and knickers twisting she seems to cause. 

You have to wonder why she thinks she needs a Netflix deal, interviews with Oprah and her own podcast then.

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Just now, Heartofice said:

You have to wonder why she thinks she needs a Netflix deal, interviews with Oprah and her own podcast then.

Netflix pays people to produce content. She doesn't pay them. If Netflix came to me based on the profundity and humour of my posts here I would certainly cash their cheque. 

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2 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

You have to wonder why she thinks she needs a Netflix deal, interviews with Oprah and her own podcast then.

Why does JKR use all these elements of her platform -- and more -- to say such hateful things to many people who had been her fans? It's really a disaster. What a horrid person one must be to use their significant power and influence to censor and deny the dignity and rights of transwomen and transmen.

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13 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Why does she have a podcast? Why does she think people care what she has to say?

 I subscribe to a few YouTube channels as I enjoy the content. For all I know  a few hundred thousand subscribers , if she has that many, could be a nice income stream. If you like what she says, one follows. If not, one ignores. One of my fave channels is Cutting Edge Engineering from Australia. Not to all tastes but he has gained a huge subscriber base because he gives people an interesting video. If Meaghan Markle can do the same who am I to complain? I am sure she would certainly perk up some ears if she dropped a "it's fucking munted." into her podcast.

 

Edited by maarsen
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20 minutes ago, maarsen said:

 I subscribe to a few YouTube channels as I enjoy the content. For all I know  a few hundred thousand subscribers , if she has that many, could be a nice income stream. If you like what she says, one follows. If not, one ignores. One of my fave channels is Cutting Edge Engineering from Australia. Not to all tastes but he has gained a huge subscriber base because he gives people an interesting video. If Meaghan Markle can do the same who am I to complain? I am sure she would certainly perk up some ears if she dropped a "it's fucking munted." into her podcast.

 

You already said a fart in windsor castle has more significance than her.. yet she clearly disagrees because she has a podcast where she spouts her own opinions, she goes on chat shows to talk about her own opinions, she creates content on Youtube and writes books to spread her own opinions. 

So she thinks her views have some significance. 

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34 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

So she thinks her views have some significance. 

So does Spotify. Which is one of the producers and the distributor of the podcast.

...and probably the listeners that made the first few episodes successful. 

https://deadline.com/2022/08/meghan-markle-spotify-charts-archetypes-joe-rogan-1235100503/

Will it last? Who knows. I don't care. The only people who seem to are her fans and then DailyMail cretins.

Edited by Week
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