Ukraine Forever

[JGP]

Just now, Arakasi said:

Speaking of moderators I feel this is coming soon to a time of exercising another type of moderator powers otherwise this thread will be derailed forever.

Nah. I'm actually finding this quite entertaining lol

[Arakasi]

1 minute ago, JGP said:

Nah. I'm actually finding this quite entertaining lol

You have a higher tolerance than me. Well can always take a break for a day or two and hope it passes.

[Varysblackfyre321]

10 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

Yeah, wanting the collapse of the Russian government will lead to civil war across the country between ethnic groups.

Possibly, and possibly lead to Russia becoming more democratic and less of a pusher of fascism worldwide.

10 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

The reason why nationalism never took hold in Russia isn't because it's not popular (Navalny is a nationalist) but because it's not an ideology that fits within the framework of the Russian Empire.

Putin does prefer Russians not having a hard political positions all together. 
Hell he arrested people who were being outwardly pro-war.

10 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

Russian Imperialism is based on a multiethnic territorial claim under the control of Moscow. Nationalism would just fracture the country and lead to a political crisis.  

Dude every empire multi-ethnic, and plenty are still heavily Nationalistic.

10 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

Hoping for the destruction of Russian is just wanting bloodshed,

No one in this thread has stated they want Russia to be destroyed.

11 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

Maybe if you were a Ukrainian who suffered a personal loss from the war I can sympathize with you on emotional level,

No you wouldn’t.

12 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

you're not I imagine you are just exploring the situation to live out blood soaked fantasy of conquest and destruction.  

I just like it when democracies fend off fascist empires.

I like it when the west helps accomplish that.

I imagine  you’re play acting a neutral commentator in order to make you’re demands for Ukrainians seem more reasonable.

[Jace, Extat]

Let him speak, I say

 

[Tywin et al.]

24 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

So annexation is ok as long as you wait 8 years? 

I hope I have the discipline not to debate with you anymore because your arguments are garbage and clearly in bad faith.  Good day.  

One could argue Bezos has spent about that amount of time trying to annex the Commies. 

[JGP]

7 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

I wish to see the end of Putin's regime, and hope that doesn't result in a massive civil war in Russia, because that would indeed be terrible. But Putin and his cronies turned the Russian Federation into a feudal state, and such states usually don't commit to massive political change without bloodshed. 

So end all empires.

 

8 minutes ago, Arakasi said:

You have a higher tolerance than me. Well can always take a break for a day or two and hope it passes.

Nah dude, sorry. I don't got no override. It may just be tolerance, because of where I'm at right now. We got to be willing to entertain at least some level of bullshit or what the hell, you know lol 

I don't know anyone who isn't going through it right now, and yes, for almost a year many of us have been projecting our fears, our horror, our anger over Russia's invasion, and now things have turned around we're what? Celebrating death? Come the fuck again?  Shit is laughable.  

 

 

[Padraig]

10 minutes ago, Arakasi said:

Speaking of moderators I feel this is coming soon to a time of exercising another type of moderator powers otherwise this thread will be derailed forever.

I'd like him to give me my quote first.  

Further information about the "Russian Empire" may be fascinating also. 

[DMC]

4 minutes ago, Fire and Jace said:

Let him speak, I say

 

Me too, albeit saying the territories in question were never under the Ukranian regime is bordering on propaganda.

[Tywin et al.]

2 minutes ago, DMC said:

Me too, albeit saying the territories in question were never under the Ukranian regime is bordering on propaganda.

 

 

[butterweedstrover]

2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

 

 

I guess it feels good to be part of a group where everyone can reassure each other they're right without having to think about any issue. And when they are challenged on the increasingly radical and violent tone of their rhetoric they close ranks and laugh. 

But there has been nothing substantive from your end, just ridicule and distribution of some of the worst propaganda which is flat out false. 

[Jace, Extat]

13 minutes ago, DMC said:

Me too, albeit saying the territories in question were never under the Ukranian regime is bordering on propaganda.

Goddamit if Ty didn't just beat me at my own game, but if YOU know the truth. The actual truth. Don't ever let defending it become a burden. It's a privilege.

Muzzling is the cowards tactic

Edited December 28, 2022 by Fire and Jace

[polishgenius]

@butterweedstrover you don't seem very well informed about the situation. 

[butterweedstrover]

31 minutes ago, Padraig said:

Can you show me an actual quote from the article that says that?

I read the article earlier and it says the complete opposite.  Easy to prove me wrong with a quote.

I actually linked you a second article. Try reading it this time. 

But I wonder how an article from the Atlantic Council which outright says the Ukrainian government is not investigating the massacre or prosecuting anyone involved can be read as confirmation Yanukovych shot protestors. That is lie which is actually propaganda, maybe take issue with that instead of me.   

32 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

I wish to see the end of Putin's regime, and hope that doesn't result in a massive civil war in Russia, because that would indeed be terrible. But Putin and his cronies turned the Russian Federation into a feudal state, and such states usually don't commit to massive political change without bloodshed. 

Russia has always been feudal. Putin didn't create the system. Crossing your fingers isn't enough to advocate destructive policy and hoping it turns out well. 

[Jace, Extat]

Just now, polishgenius said:

@butterweedstrover you don't seem very well informed about the situation. 

I was just coming to follow-up and it was to something of this effect:

 

Yo, it's one thing to scrub away some Calvin Candy shit or something.

But this dude may actually just be wrong. If nothing else give him the opportunity to learn the truth by being exposed to it. Even if it's as an antagonist.

That's just my opinion

[JGP]

3 minutes ago, Fire and Jace said:

Muzzling is the coward's tactic

Tend to bark themselves out eventually anyway

 

[sips coffee]

 

 

[ThinkerX]

I am rather bizarrely reminded of my stint as a grand juror, listening to the evidence that landed people in legal trouble. In pretty much all of those cases, there was a 'tipping point' or 'decision point' where the accused could simply have walked away or chosen otherwise and escaped the whole mess.

Putin's invasion of Russia seems like a larger scale version of this. The decision to invade Ukraine was entirely his. He could just as easily have chosen to not invade Ukraine. Once made, though, that decision led directly to hundreds of thousands of people killed, sanctions that essentially crippled Russia, bringing misery to tens of millions, and exposing his military as a paper tiger. All entirely because of the hubris of a single individual. 

[DMC]

3 minutes ago, Fire and Jace said:

Goddamit if Ty didn't just beat me at my own game, but if YOU know the truth. The actual truth. Don't ever let defending it become a burden. It's a privilege.

Meh it depends on the context. Me personally?  No I don't give a shit if people want to post their deluded ramblings to their heart's desire.  But if if I ran a forum this size I'd probably feel a responsibility to not allow the propagation of certain disinformation.  Not saying it's at such a point, just understand the concern.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

@butterweedstrover

For a second time was Ukraine morally wrong to liberate Kherson, Lyman, Izyum, and Kupiansk?  

[Jace, Extat]

Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

@butterweedstrover

For a second time was Ukraine morally wrong to liberate Kherson, Lyman, Izyum, and Kupiansk?  

No, Your Honor YOU'RE out of order!

 

(that's as much of an answer as you're getting baby)

 

[Tywin et al.]

15 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

I guess it feels good to be part of a group where everyone can reassure each other they're right without having to think about any issue. And when they are challenged on the increasingly radical and violent tone of their rhetoric they close ranks and laugh. 

But there has been nothing substantive from your end, just ridicule and distribution of some of the worst propaganda which is flat out false. 

Better to be part of that group than the one that cannot see that the only thing radical and violent here is Putin's invasion of a sovereign nation under made up pretexts which has lead to the deaths of tens of thousands of people and the financial destruction of so many more.

Fuck Putin and his government of soulless clowns who are where they are now because of their own making.