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The Rise and Fall of Kanye West


Mr. Chatywin et al.
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14 minutes ago, Gorn said:

He is choosing not to listen to them.

And that's why an intervention is the probably the best course of action.

Calling the cops on my brother was one of the most difficult decisions I've ever had to make.

But when someone you love is acting like that you can't just stand by and watch. Or maybe you can. 

Because this shit is funny, right? I mean, LOOK AT HIM! All dressed up in black, praising Hitler, with a fucking gimp mask covering his head. Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

 

Edited by Spockydog
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I don't think this is funny. As I said, Kanye has plenty of people around him with responsibility to help him. I'm not one of those people. 

And I stand by my statement that people's personality and choices matter, even when their inhibitions are removed by the effects of mental illness or substance abuse. Some people get drunk and choose not to drive. Other people get drunk and choose to drive.

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28 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

And that's why an intervention is the probably the best course of action.

Calling the cops on my brother was one of the most difficult decisions I've ever had to make.

But when someone you love is acting like that you can't just stand by and watch. Or maybe you can. 

Because this shit is funny, right? I mean, LOOK AT HIM! All dressed up in black, praising Hitler, with a fucking gimp mask covering his head. Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

 

I have nothing but sympathy and compassion for what happened to you and your brother.  Your brother was clearly a danger to himself and others and the incredibly difficult actions you took were necessary to protect yourself and your brother.

The question I have asked that I haven’t seen answered is whether or not Mr. West’s behavior rises to the level that would allow any sort of medical intervention?  He’s saying crazy stuff publicly and with the amplifier of mass media are his crazy rants a threat to himself and others to the specific legal definition that would allow him to be involuntary medically committed?  I’m not sure.  

That does not mean Mr. West’s rantings about Jews and praise of Nazi’s and Hitler are not dangerous.  It means the danger may not be specific and directed enough to allow for an involuntary medical commitment.

Edited by Ser Scot A Ellison
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55 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Tell us you know nothing about Bipolar Affective Disorder without saying you know nothing about Bipolar Affective Disorder.

My father was bipolar and I have a degree in psychology. Kanye's actions are erratic to say the least and it seems clear he doesn't have a proper support system around him. The impact of what he's experiencing has to be magnified in a way none of us can understand due to his level of fame. Still, that does not excuse his refusal to get help or the hateful things he's saying. 

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Quote

Still, that does not excuse his refusal to get help

Did you ever see your dad in a prolonged state of extreme psychosis, refusing to eat, drink, or take any meds?

If so, how did your family resolve that issue?

Or did you all just ignore it and pretend to yourselves that everything was fine?

Which, btw, was basically my experience living with a paranoid-schizophrenic grandmother as a child in the 70s. 

 

Edited by Spockydog
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Just more manufactured entertainment. The guy is mentally unwell and having a public meltdown. The media is gleefully embracing this because plenty of people will rage click articles about a celebrity expressing antisemitism. Or smugly chuckle about what an idiot Kanye is for committing to this vaudeville clownery. And then the media will move on to the next bit of celebrity outrage to accommodate the short attention span of their audience. I wonder if Chris Pratt will make a return for whatever viewpoints will enrage people next?

 

Edit: And I'm thoroughly enjoying it.

Edited by IFR
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1 minute ago, IFR said:

Just more manufactured entertainment. The guy is mentally unwell and having a public meltdown. The media is gleefully embracing this because plenty of people will rage click articles about a celebrity expressing antisemitism. Or smugly chuckle about what an idiot Kanye is for committed to this vaudeville clownery. And then the media will move on to the next bit of celebrity outrage to accommodate the short attention span of their audience. I wonder if Chris Pratt will make a return for whatever viewpoints will enrage people next?

It's a bit more than that. One of two political parties in the US was publicly supporting him until two days ago, and putting him on a pedestal as an unfairly maligned martyr. Kanye is someone with access to and influence with a former (and possibly future) US president. That cannot be reduced to a random celebrity meltdown.

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44 minutes ago, Gorn said:

And I stand by my statement that people's personality and choices matter, even when their inhibitions are removed by the effects of mental illness or substance abuse.

You can stand by your statement all you like, but it's incorrect and shows that you either do not have an understanding of mental illness or you just haven't seen that many people with significant illnesses that make it impossible for them to have insight into what they are doing.

When you say things like this

Quote

Personal choice exists even with mental illness.

It's honestly complete nonsense. There are lots of examples of patients who suffer significant illnesses where they have no insight or capacity into the decisions they are making, there's a reason medical professionals like me & the police have the ability to section people when we deem that that is exactly what is happening.

*Not talking about Kanye here

Edited by Raja
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2 minutes ago, Gorn said:

It's a bit more than that. One of two political parties in the US was publicly supporting him until two days ago, and putting him on a pedestal as an unfairly maligned martyr. Kanye is someone with access to and influence with a former (and possibly future) US president. That cannot be reduced to a random celebrity meltdown.

As far as I know, Trump, who is running again, invited him for dinner then later denounced him. And then Alex Jones, who just lost a lawsuit for his Sandy Hook conspiracy theories, interviewed him. Has the party actually embraced Kanye beyond that? I will occasionally browse the conservative subreddit and almost everyone there expresses scorn for Kanye.

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10 minutes ago, Raja said:

It's honestly complete nonsense. 

I gave up when he started comparing people afflicted with incurable, debilitating illnesses, to morons who choose to drink and drive. 

 

Edited by Spockydog
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32 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Did you ever see your dad in a prolonged state of extreme psychosis, refusing to eat, drink, or take any meds?

After my parents separated when I was nine or ten I never spent a prolonged period with him again outside of vacations, and even then most of the time was just traveling to and from some place. A number of my dad's cousins are psychologists and everyone tried to help him until it was clear he wasn't going to do anything about it. There's not much more you can do after that point, and the person in question was a lawyer who constantly fought with his doctors best I can tell. 

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I think one of the big problems is he doesn't have anyone around him that's looking out for him and trying to give him good advice - he's already burned his bridges and completely alienated himself from all of them. All he's got left are sycophants looking to use him for their own ends, and up till this point that hasn't included disagreeing with him.

I don't know his story in detail, but I feel like he's been on this path for a very long time now and doesn't second guess his direction even between the manic periods and he's got as close to lucidity as he's getting. I agree completely that it's sad, that we shouldn't be treating it as something to laugh at, and that I hope something finally gives and he seeks help. 

I'm not sure I see a path back to a public figure worthy of his audience from here though. That's not something anyone is entitled to and it's been damaged by the genuinely harmful shit he's doing. 

I don't see that as remotely comparable to anything someone can do as a private citizen and please don't take this as any sort of judgement of your brother spocky - the public figure thing is it's own unique beast.

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7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

After my parents separated when I was nine or ten I never spent a prolonged period with him again outside of vacations, and even then most of the time was just traveling to and from some place. A number of my dad's cousins are psychologists and everyone tried to help him until it was clear he wasn't going to do anything about it. There's not much more you can do after that point, and the person in question was a lawyer who constantly fought with his doctors best I can tell. 

So that's a no, then. 

Perhaps if you had witnessed something as distressing as that, you might be more criticial of the West family's apparent reluctance to have him assessed by medical professionals. I'm talking about his family. The people who really love him. Not his agent. Not his PR guy. His family. Because having him assessed is entirely in their gift. 

With the amount of influence this guy wields, one could easily argue that his illness currently presents a danger to others. i.e. the Jewish community. 

 

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11 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

So that's a no, then. 

Perhaps if you had witnessed something as distressing as that, you might be more criticial of the West family's apparent reluctance to have him assessed by medical professionals. I'm talking about his family. The people who really love him. Not his agent. Not his PR guy. His family. Because having him assessed is entirely in their gift. 

With the amount of influence this guy wields, one could easily argue that his illness currently presents a danger to others. i.e. the Jewish community. 

 

I witnessed him beat my mother a number of times. The last time she crawled into my bed and cried all night. She took me and left soon afterwards.

He was mentally ill, but it does not excuse his behavior. 

Edited by Tywin et al.
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17 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

I'm talking about his family. The people who really love him. Not his agent. Not his PR guy. His family. 

Does he actually have one at this point? Losing his mum is pretty widely regarded as when he started to struggle, I don't think his father is very involved in his life and doesn't live in the US, I don't think he has siblings? Wiki lists a couple of cousins but that's pushing it for this sort of intervention. 

Then you've got his ex wife Kim Kardashian and their kids, he completely alienated her in the last year with basically threatening to murder her new boyfriend and acting like he owned her. Even if someone with as large a "conflict of interest" as her could be a valid person to pursue this I wouldn't want to open my life to him even a crack at the moment.

That's what I'm getting at when I say everyone he's got left isn't looking out for his interests.

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36 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I witnessed him beat my mother a number of times. The last time she crawled into my bed and cried all night. She took me and left soon afterwards.

He was mentally ill, but it does not excuse his behavior. 

(((Hugs))) no sarcasm.  Living through shit like that sucks. 

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My aunt, who is severely bipolar [she's found the right medication regime though, or so it seems] Is a former accountant. She did that for the Manning Center for a while in YYC. Google that shit. While not wholesale racist, horrible political operative people.

She's not right wing, not sure if I'd label as left either. Plenty of breakdowns, programs [voluntary and involuntary] the works. She can get upset, angry, the whole emotional gamut. Never seen her being hateful. Never heard of her being hateful. Not like this.

And yes she and I have a few personal confrontations. I've yet to see Ye absolutely wild like I've periodically seen her. 

Yet.

Bipolar people clearly aren't all the same. I don't really talk to her former husband anymore, though occasionally her son my cousin. I can't recall either of them relating anything hateful about her behavior or things said during stress responses. Hurtful? Absolutely.

So like, what are we trying to say here then? I mean, Ye has had these issues before. There's at least one former employee under an NDA because Ye, allegedly, had praised Hitler and Nazis [this account is a few years old, iirc]

Edited by JGP
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