Craving Peaches Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 Murder, Rape, Assault, Fraud, Extortion, Administration of Noxious Substances, Theft, Escaping from Prison...Treason? Have I missed anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 Does breaking out of prison count or poisoning Cersei? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aejohn the Conqueroo Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 I think he mentions fantasizing about raping Cersei somewhere in Dance. Not really a crime to fantasize, maybe still not an entirely healthy act. The singer that ended up in the brown (that bowl of brown is a metaphor for EVERYTHING!) was murder sure but lets not forget the accompanying crime of feeding him to the poors of Kingslanding. He's an escaped slave too, that's a crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted December 2, 2022 Author Share Posted December 2, 2022 1 minute ago, sifth said: Does breaking out of prison count or poisoning Cersei? Hmmm...I believe poisoning Cersei could count as administration of noxious substances. Breaking out of prison, probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 Some of his Essos "crimes" are rather interesting. Such as when he's a slave and he posions his overseer, Nurse. Does that count as a crime? What about escaping from slavery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aejohn the Conqueroo Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 11 minutes ago, sifth said: Some of his Essos "crimes" are rather interesting. Such as when he's a slave and he posions his overseer, Nurse. Does that count as a crime? What about escaping from slavery? If escaping slavery isn't a crime, then they aren't really slaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astarkchoice Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 Hmm cant think of others just Arming the savage hill tribes so they can s better kill innocents and travellers all over the vale and kingswood! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted December 2, 2022 Author Share Posted December 2, 2022 26 minutes ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said: If escaping slavery isn't a crime, then they aren't really slaves. 39 minutes ago, sifth said: Some of his Essos "crimes" are rather interesting. Such as when he's a slave and he posions his overseer, Nurse. Does that count as a crime? What about escaping from slavery? On one hand it probably is a crime locally. On the other hand Tyrion has the defence of necessity. The consequences of him breaking the law in this case I would argue are less severe than adhering to it. By escaping from slavery he is sparing himself potential untold suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aejohn the Conqueroo Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 12 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: On one hand it probably is a crime locally. On the other hand Tyrion has the defence of necessity. The consequences of him breaking the law in this case I would argue are less severe than adhering to it. By escaping from slavery he is sparing himself potential untold suffering. Well then by killing the bard he saved himself potential untold suffering as well, so if he gets a pass for one on that basis he should get a pass for all of them. I wonder how many of his crimes didn't spare him from potential untold suffering - or weren't intended to. Maybe lying to Jamie about killing Joffrey was only intended to hurt, but nothing else comes quickly to mind right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted December 2, 2022 Author Share Posted December 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said: Well then by killing the bard he saved himself potential untold suffering as well, so if he gets a pass for one on that basis he should get a pass for all of them. I wonder how many of his crimes didn't spare him from potential untold suffering - or weren't intended to. Maybe lying to Jamie about killing Joffrey was only intended to hurt, but nothing else comes quickly to mind right now. I think the killing of the bard is different. Because he put himself in the situation where he had to deal with the bard in the first place. Killing the bard was also not his only option. He had other ways to deal with that situation. By contrast, the only way for him to escape the horrors of slavery was to escape the slavery. He only has the defence if breaking the law is the lesser evil and he has no way to resolve the situation without breaking the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 To be fair, Tyrion only kills Symon Silver Tongue after he threatens to blackmail him. I'm not saying what he did was right by any means, but it does fall into one of the more grey areas, IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aejohn the Conqueroo Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 27 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: He only has the defence if breaking the law is the lesser evil and he has no way to resolve the situation without breaking the law. Ok, I was going by the OP which said 'crimes' and nothing about lesser and greater evils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted December 2, 2022 Author Share Posted December 2, 2022 1 minute ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said: Ok, I was going by the OP which said 'crimes' and nothing about lesser and greater evils. Yes, and I was talking about a defence to the crimes... It is where the crime is the lesser evil compared to the consequences of adhering to the law. I apologise if I have explained the defence inadequately. Perhaps these links will explain better than I. Necessity – Crime.Scot Defences - Duress and Necessity | The Crown Prosecution Service (cps.gov.uk) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Stark Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 2 hours ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said: If escaping slavery isn't a crime, then they aren't really slaves. Slavery is an illigitimate practice to begin with. A slave escaping to freedom cannot by definition be a criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Stark Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 He did rape that slave girl in Volantis, and he couldn't have needed to do that to avoid suffering. If anything, raping the slave caused Tyrion to feel guilt, which is arguably a form of suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted December 2, 2022 Author Share Posted December 2, 2022 4 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said: He did rape that slave girl in Volantis, and he couldn't have needed to do that to avoid suffering. If anything, raping the slave caused Tyrion to feel guilt, which is arguably a form of suffering. I agree, I was mentioning the defence only in relation to the 'crime' of escaping slavery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aejohn the Conqueroo Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Nathan Stark said: Slavery is an illigitimate practice to begin with. A slave escaping to freedom cannot by definition be a criminal. That does not appear to be the position of the Yunkai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aejohn the Conqueroo Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said: Yes, and I was talking about a defence to the crimes... It is where the crime is the lesser evil compared to the consequences of adhering to the law. I apologise if I have explained the defence inadequately. Perhaps these links will explain better than I. Necessity – Crime.Scot Defences - Duress and Necessity | The Crown Prosecution Service (cps.gov.uk) Scottish criminal law? Fort some reason the Essosi don't seem to be acknowledging that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 10 minutes ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said: That does not appear to be the position of the Yunkai. Piracy and kidnap are crimes everywhere, and Tyrion was the victim of both. The Yunkish may trade with kidnappers and pirates, but Tyrion has no obligation to obey such laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EggBlue Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 7 hours ago, Craving Peaches said: Murder, Rape, Assault, Fraud, Extortion, Administration of Noxious Substances, Escaping from Prison...Treason? Have I missed anything? it depends... why we are counting his crimes? the crimes I care about are raping that Volantine slave girl , killing that poor singer and feeding him to people and murdering Shae in cold blood. I guess he is also a complicit in what happened to Tysha , though he was 13 and a victim himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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