FILM AWARDS SEASON 2022/2023 (Update: Guilds' Winners, Oscar week)

[Cashless Society]

On 3/5/2023 at 9:24 PM, Ran said:

Women Talking. I am a bit divided on it. I think the very opening section and then the last 20-30 minutes are very powerful. But everything in between is, IMO, pretty shaky. The blunt, obvious didacticism of the script is not helped by the odd diction often used, a strange poeticism that maybe is meant to capture something of the Low German of the Mennonites, but just seems jarringly strange for a group of women who are completely illiterate and don't even know what lies beyond the boundaries of their colony. It's Sarah Polley (and Towes, the original author of the novel being adapted, I'd guess) speaking, not these Mennonite women, is the sense I get.

Even the performers are largely flat for me, and yet it's a terrific list of performers on paper. Ben Whishaw stands out as the soft-spoken teacher who's invited to record the minutes of the women's meeting to discuss what to do, he's incredibly expressive and for me the most emotional scene in the film turned on him, which I feel like Polley could never possibly have intended

It makes more sense if you ignore the narration and think of the story as an extended imagination from someone reading the minutes from Whishaw's notebook. Apparently, the novel is written in report form from those minutes, hence the more erudite language (and the ironic title).

In my opinion, the contrast in stylised dialect and the more realistic approach to conversation (i.e. people interrupting each other, the sudden changes in topics, etc.) where why the performances where really off as Polley couldn't combine them in a cohesive way.

On 3/6/2023 at 3:37 AM, Tywin et al. said:

Blanchett was great in it though overall the movie was kind of boring. I'd recommend it, but it's not a movie that will be remembered five years from now. 

I think it will be, solely due to film critics and pop culture commentariats will continue to mention it, especially whenever culture war issues are brought up.

On 3/7/2023 at 12:24 AM, Mladen said:

Since expansion to 10 Best Picture nominated movies, Academy has been known for "spreading the wealth".

Pretty much one of the worst approaches to awarding a film, why not just give it to the best regardless of how many other awards it probably will end up winning?

[Mladen]

My personal choice for preferential ballot:

 

 

@Ran, I am so happy you liked TAR. It is amazing movie, a true adult cinema that makes you think about a lot of issues. I am not a fan of just calling it "cancel culture movie", as there are so many impressive elements to it. I would really hate to see Blanchett and Field going home empty-handed, so I hope at least Blanchett wins. This was truly once-in-a-lifetime role that positioned Cate on the heights of Daniel Day-Lewis and Robert De Niro, proving women can play unlikeable, complex characters equally impressive as men.

 

3 hours ago, Cashless Society said:

Pretty much one of the worst approaches to awarding a film, why not just give it to the best regardless of how many other awards it probably will end up winning?

 

I don't have a problem when the movie truly deserves, but I think it has been proven numerous times that most movies don't actually deserve that much attention (probably best example is "The King's Speech"). And in this particular scenario, I do want to see "TAR" and "Banshees" winning something because yes, they deserve so. 

[TheLastWolf]

So Top Gun for Best Song please?

[Annara Snow]

Having seen a bunch of moviesat the current FEST festival in Belgrade, including Till and Pearl (and Infinity Pool), can now definitely say that Danielle Deadwyler and Mia Goth are the two breaktthough actresses of the last year with some of the best performances of the year, and that both really should have been nominated for an Oscar.

[Ran]

4 hours ago, Cashless Society said:

In my opinion, the contrast in stylised dialect and the more realistic approach to conversation (i.e. people interrupting each other, the sudden changes in topics, etc.) where why the performances where really off as Polley couldn't combine them in a cohesive way.

Excellent way of putting words to the issue. I agree 100%. Maybe this is also why Whishshaw stands out, if his part of the film is purely imaginative and not dictated by the minutes.

It would probably have worked better as a stage play, now that I think of it.

28 minutes ago, Mladen said:

My personal choice for preferential ballot:

 

@Ran, I am so happy you liked TAR. It is amazing movie, a true adult cinema that makes you think about a lot of issues. I am not a fan of just calling it "cancel culture movie", as there are so many impressive elements to it.

That's a terribly reductive way to look at it, but I imagine some detractors have fastened on it because knee-jerk reactions. You're right, there's a lot more to it -- a lampoon of the world of high art and classical music, a #MeToo story, the ills of celebrity culture...

 

[Mladen]

2 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

Having seen a bunch of moviesat the current FEST festival in Belgrade, including Till and Pearl (and Infinity Pool), can now definitely say that Danielle Deadwyler and Mia Goth are the two breaktthough actresses of the last year with some of the best performances of the year, and that both really should have been nominated for an Oscar.

Mia Goth never got the chance due to being in horror movie. We learned that from Lupita. Deadwyler was sadly the victim of her movie not being seen and Riseborough campaign. There are a lot of great female performances this year that didn't enter the final five. Personal favorites include Tang Wei, Guslagie Malanda, Vicky Krieps and Zar Amir Ebrahimi. 

2 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

So Top Gun for Best Song please?

I doubt it. The world has gone mad for "Naatu, Naatu"

[TheLastWolf]

35 minutes ago, Mladen said:

I doubt it. The world has gone mad for "Naatu, Naatu"

Then the world will have to continue to bear my (w)rants 

[Annara Snow]

43 minutes ago, Mladen said:

Mia Goth never got the chance due to being in horror movie. We learned that from Lupita. Deadwyler was sadly the victim of her movie not being seen and Riseborough campaign. There are a lot of great female performances this year that didn't enter the final five. Personal favorites include Tang Wei, Guslagie Malanda, Vicky Krieps and Zar Amir Ebrahimi. 

I doubt it. The world has gone mad for "Naatu, Naatu"

I haven't seen any of these movies, but why is everyone bringing up Riseborough , just because it was actors canpaigning rather than the studios? Isn't there a lot more controversy about whether De Armas deserved her nomination and whether Williams even playe a lead?

[Ran]

1 minute ago, Annara Snow said:

I haven't seen any of these movies, but why is everyone bringing up Riseborough , just because it was actors canpaigning rather than the studios?

It's utter nonsense. No one knows that Deadwyler missed out because of Riseborough. It may well have been Davis, who absolutely did have a bunch of publicity people pushing for her, and yet her performance isn't all that

Riseborough's performance is unquestionably phenomenal and is the best of the nominees, besides Blanchett.

1 minute ago, Annara Snow said:

Isn't there a lot more controversy about whether De Armas deserved her nomination and whether Williams even playe a lead?

I haven't seen much contorversy about De Armas. It's more about the film than her. A lot of critics reacted very negatively to the film (FWIW, I didn't -- I think it's a horror movie about sex and celebrity, while it seems most want a hagiography of Monroe), but I can't recall much in the way of it having to do with her performance, which was consistently praised. 

Michelle Williams getting a nod is silly. She does fine work but she's not a lead in the same was as Blanchett, Yeoh, Riseborough, and De Armas are, and honestly I think her nomination was undeserved. Wouldn't have necessarily put Deadwyler or Davis in her spot, but maybe!

 

[Mladen]

8 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

I haven't seen any of these movies, but why is everyone bringing up Riseborough , just because it was actors canpaigning rather than the studios? Isn't there a lot more controversy about whether De Armas deserved her nomination and whether Williams even playe a lead?

Best Actress category is riddled with controversy this year. It's a never -ending clusterf*ck the past few years. 

One by one...

1. De Armas was superb. No doubt about that, I hated that movie with every fiber of my being, but she was good. She deserved her nomination. Plus, it is Netflix movie and they have a lot of soft power in Hollywood. Simply, people like t go home and watch movies for free on Netflix. She is truly brilliant and would have been a perfect Marylin if the script and directing have not been so... misogynist. 

2. Riseborough campaign was an act of God. Or Frances Fisher (Ruth, Rose's mother, in "Titanic") organized a campaign that it would shame even You-Know-Who (the SOB that got GOOP her Oscar in 1999.) The issue was not that Riseborough is not deserving. If you believe Kate Winslet, it is the best performance of all time. The issue was whom Andrea pushed out. And that would be either Viola Davis or Danielle Deadwyler. Pushing out one of 2 black actresses simply didn't sit well with Internet, especially since it felt like sucker punch. 

3. Cate Blanchett and the art of being frontrunner. Since she won Volpi Cup in Venice, Cate was undeniable frontrunner. Then she swept trifecta for the second time in less than 10 years, being the only actress ever to have done so. But that also made of her punching bag throughout the season. Riseborough team broke Academy rules in saying "Cate is great, but look at Andrea" sort of post. The entire thing didn't end... On Monday, Michelle Yeoh posted an article about how time has finally come for another POC actress win in this category. And the article literally states that Cate doesn't need another Oscar so voters should vote for Michelle Yeoh. This really didn't sit well with me, and honestly many others as Yeoh became too desperate and it was uncalled to ask people not to vote for Cate. That said, I do believe it was an innocent blunder of her team and I don't hold it against her. But simply, Academy needs to update their rulebook. These posts are unacceptable.

4. I respect Michelle Williams for going Lead. Yes, she could have gone Supporting, and she would win without a debate. However, she is a co-lead in "The Fabelmans". I am sick of people sneaking into Supporting categories (ahem, ahem, Vikander, Mara...) when they are co-Lead. So, she may not get the Oscar, but I am sure many people respect Michelle Williams for it.

[Cashless Society]

31 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

I haven't seen any of these movies, but why is everyone bringing up Riseborough , just because it was actors canpaigning rather than the studios? Isn't there a lot more controversy about whether De Armas deserved her nomination and whether Williams even playe a lead?

There's also some issues in that campaigning rules may have been violated, and whether or not academy members would have been publicly campaigning for a performer from a minority group. Here's a video that breaks down the issue.

 

 

[Annara Snow]

1 hour ago, Cashless Society said:

There's also some issues in that campaigning rules may have been violated, and whether or not academy members would have been publicly campaigning for a performer from a minority group. Here's a video that breaks down the issue.

 

 

Aside from Yeoh, none of nominees belong to a minority group, so I don't see how that's relevant for wny it's just Riseborough's nomination that's the issue. Why did the studios campaign for white actresses?

[Ran]

1 minute ago, Annara Snow said:

Aside from Yeoh, none of nominees belong to a minority group, so I don't see how that's relevant for wny it's just Riseborough's nomination that's the issue. Why did the studios campaign for white actresses?

Ana de Armas is Hispanic (she's Cuban), and as far as the US is concerned that is usually a minority group. However, that depends on when it's convenient to focus on whether one is white Hispanic or not, and I'm sure that's been aimed at De Armas.

Pretending Viola Davis was not campaigning is crazy. Yeah, the Riseborough campaign was unusual, but the Academy has spoken, and basically the guerilla campaign was still just another campaign. 

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Mladen said:

And the article literally states that Cate doesn't need another Oscar so voters should vote for Michelle Yeoh.

Happens all the time and is not unique to film and stage awards. LeBron and Jordan should have 10 MVPs each, but they don't because voters get bored and overvalue new and/or different things. I think Yeoh should get the award on merit, but I'm fine if the rationalization is her and Cate are pretty even so give it to the person who hasn't won one before. It will mean so much more to her and the audience that's rooting for her than if Cate wins.

11 minutes ago, Ran said:

Ana de Armas is Hispanic (she's Cuban), and as far as the US is concerned that is usually a minority group. However, that depends on when it's convenient to focus on whether one is white Hispanic or not, and I'm sure that's been aimed at De Armas.

There's a debate over whether or not she's a minority? That's news to me. 

Quote

Pretending Viola Davis was not campaigning is crazy. Yeah, the Riseborough campaign was unusual, but the Academy has spoken, and basically the guerilla campaign was still just another campaign. 

Yeah, I also don't get this angle. Almost everyone is campaigning for every award and it's malpractice not to do so. Many actors, directors, producers, etc. that we celebrate today needed campaigning behind the scenes for us to first recognize their accomplishments. 

[Mladen]

56 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

Aside from Yeoh, none of nominees belong to a minority group, so I don't see how that's relevant for wny it's just Riseborough's nomination that's the issue. Why did the studios campaign for white actresses?

So, the studios campaigned for the movies they had. SONY campaigned for Viola, United Artists (although they are the worst in this!) did this for Danielle etc. It is wrong to assume that these women were without support. Helen Mirren held a screening for "Till", so did Cher. Charlize Theron and Anne Hathaway supported Michelle Yeoh in October etc. 

The Riseborough thing was questionable because of few reasons:

1. The tweets celebrities were posting seemed to be c/p.

2. There was a reference to Cate and how Andrea is better than her. 

3. Frances Fisher was saying to people that Cate, Yeoh, Davis and Deadwyler were safe so that people need to vote for Andrea. Needless to say, anyone who has followed this season knew that the only 2 safe were Cate and Yeoh.

4. As someone said, there were something mafia-ish about whole thing. It was like Hollywood actors arranged for some unknown friend to get nominated even though audience didn't even see her movie (it got $27k on Box Office in States)

28 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Happens all the time and is not unique to film and stage awards. LeBron and Jordan should have 10 MVPs each, but they don't because voters get bored and overvalue new and/or different things. I think Yeoh should get the award on merit, but I'm fine if the rationalization is her and Cate are pretty even so give it to the person who hasn't won one before. It will mean so much more to her and the audience that's rooting for her than if Cate wins.

Cate is the only one without narrative this year, which makes even more formidable case how she was able to overcome the entire slew of actresses this year solely on the basis of her performance. The issue here is that narrative about Cate's performance created naturally and now we have "Cate was better but I loved Yeoh..." which really raises a lot of eyebrows.

30 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

There's a debate over whether or not she's a minority? That's news to me. 

Oh, yeah... There's a debate about this. Especially since she is playing Marilyn, a white icon.

 

[Annara Snow]

56 minutes ago, Mladen said:

So, the studios campaigned for the movies they had. SONY campaigned for Viola, United Artists (although they are the worst in this!) did this for Danielle etc. It is wrong to assume that these women were without support. Helen Mirren held a screening for "Till", so did Cher. Charlize Theron and Anne Hathaway supported Michelle Yeoh in October etc. 

The Riseborough thing was questionable because of few reasons:

1. The tweets celebrities were posting seemed to be c/p.

2. There was a reference to Cate and how Andrea is better than her. 

3. Frances Fisher was saying to people that Cate, Yeoh, Davis and Deadwyler were safe so that people need to vote for Andrea. Needless to say, anyone who has followed this season knew that the only 2 safe were Cate and Yeoh.

4. As someone said, there were something mafia-ish about whole thing. It was like Hollywood actors arranged for some unknown friend to get nominated even though audience didn't even see her movie (it got $27k on Box Office in States)

Cate is the only one without narrative this year, which makes even more formidable case how she was able to overcome the entire slew of actresses this year solely on the basis of her performance. The issue here is that narrative about Cate's performance created naturally and now we have "Cate was better but I loved Yeoh..." which really raises a lot of eyebrows.

Oh, yeah... There's a debate about this. Especially since she is playing Marilyn, a white icon.

 

If a bunch of actors are like mafia, the big studios are probably much more so. Most of their campaigning is probably not on social media though. The whole thing seems really hypocritical. 

As for "not vote for Cate", Michelle Yooh reposted a post that said the same, don't vote for Cate because she already has Oscars and it would mean so much more for her.

USA has this thing where they consider every Hispanic person a POC, just one of the bizarre things about the US view of race. Ana de Armas is still obviously white.

[Mladen]

1 minute ago, Annara Snow said:

If a bunch of actors are like mafia, the big studios are probably much more so. Most of their campaigning is probably not on social media though. I The whole thing seems really hypocritical. 

As for "not vote for Cate", Michelle Yooh reposted a post that said the same, don't vote for Cate because she already has Oscars and it would mean so much more for her.

I agree with you. I was just stating what was the "issue" with it. That said, the problem was not campaign but the fact that Andrea pushed out one black actress and Hollywood does love outrage regarding the race.

Yes, both Michelle's and Andrea's teams did it and it was wrong in both situations. Naturally, American pundits have a bit of myopia with Yeoh this season, so we let that slide. Academy has strict rules about campaigning and this "don't vote for my competitions" is strictly prohibited. As I said, the entire season was rather messy. Ironically, by talking about Cate, they all convinced entire public that Cate is the best, so Academy needs to look into other reasons other than merit to award them. Which I do believe is more of impression than factual truth, but we are where we are.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Mladen said:

Cate is the only one without narrative this year, which makes even more formidable case how she was able to overcome the entire slew of actresses this year solely on the basis of her performance. The issue here is that narrative about Cate's performance created naturally and now we have "Cate was better but I loved Yeoh..." which really raises a lot of eyebrows.

I don't think you can flatly say she was better. The performances were pretty equal, so I'd give it to the one who was in the better movie which is Yeoh.

Quote

Oh, yeah... There's a debate about this. Especially since she is playing Marilyn, a white icon.

That's a debate about casting a Latina to play a white woman who she doesn't look like, not a judgement on her ethnicity. 

[Annara Snow]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

I don't think you can flatly say she was better. The performances were pretty equal, so I'd give it to the one who was in the better movie which is Yeoh.

That's a debate about casting a Latina to play a white woman who she doesn't look like, not a judgement on her ethnicity. 

A white Latina to play a white woman. That is an issue now? None of the other actresses who played Marilyn looked exactly like her either.

I wasn't aware that any such debate was taking place, though. Only the debate about the movie itself and people hating it and how it portrays Marilyn Monroe.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

3 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

A white Latina to play a white woman. That is an issue now?

Outside of some weird corners of the interwebs, there were like, two or three guys making an issue of this, like, a year ago.