Kevan Lannister was NOT a "good man."

[Nathan Stark]

It's been said over and over again. Varys called Kevan a "good man." Tyrion likes Kevan well enough. Kevan is portrayed on page as quiet, unnassuming, polite and dutiful. He's a nice and decent man. But that is not the same thing as being a "good" man.

Let us be perfectly blunt. Tywin Lannister was one of, if not the most, evil characters in A Song of Ice and Fire. He wiped out entire families, ordered the deaths of helpless women and children, from Elia Martell and her babies on down to countless nameless smallfolk. He abused, manipulated and gaslit his three children. He allowed his henchmen to commit atrocities in his name. He ordered punishments directed at women in particular that were cruel, sexualized, sadistic and utterly unnecessary given the situations depicted. Tywin Lannister was a monster. His legacy was literally a feast for crows.

And where was Kevan Lannister during this long run of war crimes, atrocities, and murder? He was at Tywin's side, for all of it. He was Tywin's loyal right hand, who led armies in Tywin's name. He saw firsthand the horrors Tywin left in his bloody wake. Not only did Kevan do nothing to stop these monstrocities, he actively, eagerly participated in them. 

Remember this exchange from A Game of Thrones? 

Quote

"As you say, my lord, but... why Harrenhal? That is a grim, unlucky place. Some call it cursed."

"Let them," Lord Tywin said. "Unleash Ser Gregor and send him before us with his reavers. Send forth Vargo Hoat and his freeriders as well, and Ser Amory Lorch. Each is to have three hundred horse. Tell them I want to see the riverlands afire from the God's Eye to the Red Fork."

"They will burn, my lord," Ser Kevan said, rising. "I shall give the commands." He bowed and made for the door.

Tywin was very explicit in his orders. He intentionally sent forth Gregor Clegane, Vargo Hoat, and Amory Lorch to "set the riverlands afire." And he depended on Kevan, his trusted deputy, to carry the orders out. And, upon recieivng his instructions to commit atrocities, Kevan replied "they will burn." 

Lest one thinks "Kevan was just following orders," (itself a terrible defence for his actions) once Tywin was out of the picture and Kevan had authority on his own merits in Kings Landing, he agreed to subject Cersei, his own neice and Tywin's own daughter, to the same sick punishment that Tywin forced upon their fathers mistress years prior. Kevan didn't just follow Tywin's orders. When he had the chance, Kevan followed Tywin's example.

Kevan was a personally decent man, who showed kindness to individual members of his family (again, unless you account for his part in Cersei's walk of shame). He may not have been the source of Tywin and House Lannister's abject cruelty (though he often was). But through serving his brother, and providing a friendly, approachable face to Tywin's political program, and by carrying out Tywin's orders to commit atrocities, Kevan implicated himself in all of the pointless cruelty. He did so in full awareness of the consequences. And if Varys hadn't killed Kevan, he would have carried right on in Tywin's bloody wake. 

Kevan Lannister was not a good man.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Nathan Stark

[Phylum of Alexandria]

In terms of current US politics, he's Mike Pence.

[Canon Claude]

Kevan also bore witness to the alienation and abuse of Tyrion by his father and sister for years. And unlike Tyrion’s other uncles, he is not kind to him and is quick to suspect the worst in him.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Canon Claude

[sifth]

Kevan tells Tyrion in the third book, that his brother is a "just man"........................the same guy who had Tyrion's wife gang raped.

 

Yea Kevan is scum. Part of me wishes he was a more permanent POV. I'd like to see his take on some of his brothers, extracurricular activities.

[Tyrosh Lannister]

1 hour ago, sifth said:

Kevan tells Tyrion in the third book, that his brother is a "just man"........................the same guy who had Tyrion's wife gang raped.

 

Yea Kevan is scum. Part of me wishes he was a more permanent POV. I'd like to see his take on some of his brothers, extracurricular activities.

Does Kevan know of the gangrape of Tysha? 

[sifth]

10 minutes ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

Does Kevan know of the gangrape of Tysha? 

I always assumed he did. He and Tywin shared pretty much everything.

[James Steller]

47 minutes ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

Does Kevan know of the gangrape of Tysha? 

How could he not? He'd have totally sided with Tywin, too, given the way he thinks of Tytos' mistress.

[Arthur Peres]

What I find almost funny is how bad Kevan read Tywin...

Like the whole walk of shame thing, he trying to justify to himself that Tywin would do the same, when is reallity Tywin would burn the whole of Westeros before letting a mob of commoners mock a Lannister, let alone his daughter.

Kevan is not a cruel man, but he is a awful one.

[Nevets]

I think of him as more weak than bad.  He's a follower not a leader.  He is the quintessential "good soldier"; a loyal lieutenant who reliably carries out his master's orders without serious question.  Unfortunately, he has given his loyalty to a man who doesn't really deserve it.

[Floki of the Ironborn]

5 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

Kevan also bore witness to the alienation and abuse of Tyrion by his father and sister for years. And unlike Tyrion’s other uncles, he is not kind to him and is quick to suspect the worst in him.

To be fair, if Keven knew everything of what Tyrion has been through by his family, wouldn't that enforce an idea that he'd take a revenge on his family by killing Joffrey? And given that he justifies anything Tywin does, it makes sense that Kevan would immediately assume Tyrion went from bad to worse.

[Alden Rothack]

Kevin serves his brother loyally and well as is his duty, Tywin in turn trusts and rewards him for his service, if Robert trusted Stannis as much as Tywin trusts Kevin the war would never have happened

However Kevins loyalty costs him two sons then his life and ne blames cersei and Tyrion for that so he wants revenge on them for what he thinks they did in Tyrions or actually did in Cerseis, he justifies it by saying that Tywin would have allowed it, he wouldn't of course but he also wouldn't have allowed the faith to arm in the first place, cersei is the only one that stupid

[Loose Bolt]

In my head canon Kevan is typical 2nd son. After all oldest sons are trained to become leaders of their houses when younger sons are trained to obey orders and learn that they will be less equal than their older brothers. So second sons like Kevan, Ned and Stannis had different training than their older brothers who were more free to do what they wanted to do. In fact all those men mentioned above were less wild than their older brothers.

[Alden Rothack]

39 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

In my head canon Kevan is typical 2nd son. After all oldest sons are trained to become leaders of their houses when younger sons are trained to obey orders and learn that they will be less equal than their older brothers. So second sons like Kevan, Ned and Stannis had different training than their older brothers who were more free to do what they wanted to do. In fact all those men mentioned above were less wild than their older brothers.

Yes and Tywin of course does his duty to his brother the best despite his manifest failings in other areas.

We don't know if Brandon would have been good or bad to Ned

[SeanF]

I cannot see him as a good man.  He simply obeys orders, however cruel.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

17 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

Yes and Tywin of course does his duty to his brother the best despite his manifest failings in other areas.

We don't know if Brandon would have been good or bad to Ned

Brandon tried to give a date with Ashara Dayne to Ned, who remembers his older brother fondly, and he was very protective of his siblings as shown with his reaction to Lyanna's abduction.

So while he certainly wouldn't have been the best lord, I don't think that he would have been bad to Ned at all.

[Phylum of Alexandria]

8 hours ago, Nevets said:

I think of him as more weak than bad.  He's a follower not a leader.  He is the quintessential "good soldier"; a loyal lieutenant who reliably carries out his master's orders without serious question.  Unfortunately, he has given his loyalty to a man who doesn't really deserve it.

I don't think it's quite weakness, or at least it's not only weakness.

If it were just weakness, we would see some sign of Kevan being troubled by Tywin's orders, but acquiescing anyway. Pycelle vs Cersei is a good example of mere weakness. He trembles, he tries to protest, and then he gives in, clearly upset.

And yet Pycelle absolutely adored Tywin. Kevan may not have worshipped Tywin as Pycelle did, but he greatly admired his brother, and regarded his viciousness either as strength, or as necessary evils for the greater good.

Weakness or no, there's a positive embrace of Tywin's cruelty that says a lot about Kevan himself.

[Nathan Stark]

15 hours ago, Nevets said:

I think of him as more weak than bad.  He's a follower not a leader.  He is the quintessential "good soldier"; a loyal lieutenant who reliably carries out his master's orders without serious question.  Unfortunately, he has given his loyalty to a man who doesn't really deserve it.

 

6 hours ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

I don't think it's quite weakness, or at least it's not only weakness.

If it were just weakness, we would see some sign of Kevan being troubled by Tywin's orders, but acquiescing anyway. Pycelle vs Cersei is a good example of mere weakness. He trembles, he tries to protest, and then he gives in, clearly upset.

And yet Pycelle absolutely adored Tywin. Kevan may not have worshipped Tywin as Pycelle did, but he greatly admired his brother, and regarded his viciousness either as strength, or as necessary evils for the greater good.

Weakness or no, there's a positive embrace of Tywin's cruelty that says a lot about Kevan himself.

I see @Nevets's argument as a subcategory of the "Kevan was just following orders" defense. If Kevan were as weak willed as this argument suggests, it isn't obvious in the text. Kevan is certainly a good soldier who follows orders without question, but plenty of good soldiers, both in universe and in real life do the same without also taking part in atrocities. That's why "I was just following orders" doesn't hold up in a court of law. Kevan by all indications knew exactly what following his orders entailed, and he still did everything he could to carry out his brother's wishes. If he were weak willed like Pycelle, that would have been obvious on the page. Instead, Kevan wholeheartedly defends his brother to Tyrion, and in his pov epilogue, he stands up to Mace Tyrell. Even Varys recognises that Kevan is no pushover, because he murders Kevan in order to ensure chaos and instability, which Kevan presumably would have prevented had he lived. A weak willed man would not have been such a threat to Varys, could not have stood up to Mace's demands for more and more power, and would not have been Cersei's first choice as Hand. I am forced to conclude that, rather than being a weak man, Kevan was just a scummy one. 

[astarkchoice]

To be fair we cant judge him by modern standards.

The rape of a common woman (tryions 1st wife) will be as common as rain in a medieval setting plus he would.share tywins view that tyrion cant be allowed to be a source of mockery for the family as it invites atttacks.

The 'rains of castermere' was unusualy brutal but weakness breed dangers , fear and strength are needed for a great family to stay safe so a rival had to be put down violently

[Phylum of Alexandria]

6 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

The 'rains of castermere' was unusualy brutal but weakness breed dangers , fear and strength are needed for a great family to stay safe so a rival had to be put down violently

The kind of strength that results in the extermination of an entire House for the sake of pride is a very fragile type of strength. Tywin would never inspire a "the North Remembers" kind of loyalty like Ned has done. Instead, his hold on the realm fell to pieces the instant he did.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Phylum of Alexandria

[Alden Rothack]

8 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

The kind of strength that results in the extermination of an entire House for the sake of pride is a very fragile type of strength. Tywin would never inspire a "the North Remembers" kind of loyalty like Ned has done. Instead, his hold on the realm fell to pieces the instant he did.

This despite the fact that the Starks were extremely brutal and exterminateed entire families when they felt they had to

they also showed remarkable kindness to traditional enemies such as the Manderleys who swore eternal loyalty and are winning to fight on as long as a single even bastard stark remains

Tywin uses only the stick and frequently to excess (Elia, exterminating the Reynes and the Tarbecks, starting a war that will kill or displace millions).

Kevin seems to be the only person hes well disposed to