UK Politics: Mone, Mone, Mone. It's not funny. It's a rich toff's world.

[mormont]

17 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Ah it’ll always be too soon to make the changes they don’t want to ever see happen and may interfere with their bigoted ambitions.

What's worse is that the UK government has said it may legally challenge the law when it passes, which is a challenge that will fail because this is unequivocally a devolved matter. Mostly I read this as mischief making, since they're well aware there's internal dissent in the SNP on the issue so they want to provoke a fight - it's smart politics from their point of view. But it's another example of how the UK government at the moment are willing to trample on anything - minority rights, the constitutional settlement, whatever it takes - if it gives them even a remote chance to hang onto power.

[Varysblackfyre321]

25 minutes ago, mormont said:

But it's another example of how the UK government at the moment are willing to trample on anything - minority rights, the constitutional settlement, whatever it takes - if it gives them even a remote chance to hang onto power.

True, the Conservative party needs to be destroyed for democracy and human longevity and prosperity.

I do think these bigoted hardline stances on trans people may be the result of mistaking the hysteria of terfs online as indicative of general societal sentiment.

In America the trans hysteria was a electoral bust. People don’t care about trans women “destroying” women’s sports generally as much Rowling does or want to see trans people disappear like Rowling and her now far right fan base would

[Varysblackfyre321]

It’s disappointing  Farage’s party is polling around 5 percent given he’s a blatant white nationalist.

[BigFatCoward]

32 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

It’s disappointing  Farage’s party is polling around 5 percent given he’s a blatant white nationalist.

It's not really though, it is electorally excellent news. They've always existed, now they can coalesce around foggy fuckface. We didn't need this to win, but anything that can help a massive tory wipeout and reset is good. 

[Which Tyler]

3 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

 

That tweet is... pretty damned horrific.

If your child is 18-30, then they're not a child, and you always have the option of being empathetic and supportive, but I guess TullipRitchie never considered that as a choice.

 

As for TERF, it's an acronym that does get thrown around way too much, mostly because most people accused of (or identifying as) TERFs aren't remotely radical feminists, and are often just straight-up bigots.

 

[polishgenius]

What a fucking dickhead. 

[BigFatCoward]

2 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

 

As for TERF, it's an acronym that does get thrown around way too much, mostly because most people accused of (or identifying as) TERFs aren't remotely radical feminists, and are often just straight-up bigots.

 

Well I would say not most. Its used in about a 33/33/33% split between actual terfs, actual bigots and anyone who has even a slightly dissenting voice. 

[Heartofice]

1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

Well I would say not most. Its used in about a 33/33/33% split between actual terfs, actual bigots and anyone who has even a slightly dissenting voice. 

Depends on who is doing the accusing, but mostly if it’s the Owen Jones’ of this world then basically anyone who doesn’t automatically buy into every part of gender ideology must therefore be ‘anti trans’ or a bigot. Mostly I see very few people being ‘anti trans’, and most polls seem to back that up.
 

In fact if you look at polling, someone like Owen Jones would think most people are bigots for what would seem to be quite mainstream opinions.

[Zorral]

6 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

to see trans people disappear like Rowling and her now far right fan base would

It is so difficult for the fashxtianjerkwaddies, caught in the paradox of condemning Rowling as a witch and cheering her terfdom, so be kind, people.

[Varysblackfyre321]

3 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Depends on who is doing the accusing, but mostly if it’s the Owen Jones’ of this world then basically anyone who doesn’t automatically buy into every part of gender ideology

Ah, that statement vague enough as it can encompass anything from not being comfortable with neo-pronouns, to thinking letting trans people be around children endangers them to gay sex should be banned.

Rowling thinks it’s dangerous for society to see anyone with a penis as a real woman. She fancies herself a feminist.

Thus she is a terf. She’s also a terrible human being.

3 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Owen Jones would think most people are bigots for what would seem to be quite mainstream opinions.

You do understand people’s opinions can still be bigoted even when they’re mainstream right?

Like when Thatcher banned lgbt support groups at schools it’d still be bigoted even if most people agreed with her.

 

[Varysblackfyre321]

7 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

That tweet is... pretty damned horrific.

If your child is 18-30, then they're not a child, and you always have the option of being empathetic and supportive, but I guess TullipRitchie never considered that as a choice.

It also presides under this presumption that every parent is as naturally hostile to trans people as they are and the base argument could be used elsewhere.

18-30 year olds are susceptible to the homosexual life style.

18-30 year olds are susceptible to miscegenation.

18-30 year olds are susceptible to the feminist agenda.

[Varysblackfyre321]

7 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

As for TERF, it's an acronym that does get thrown around way too much, mostly because most people accused of (or identifying as) TERFs aren't remotely radical feminists, and are often just straight-up bigots.

Eh being a radical feminist isn’t necessary imho in how it’s used colloquially.

I’d say it’s more person to styles their bigotry against trans people as feminist or at least progressive.

 

Matt Walsh may steal some talking points from terfs but he’s just a self described theocratic fascist.

[mormont]

12 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Ah, that statement vague enough as it can encompass anything from not being comfortable with neo-pronouns, to thinking letting trans people be around children endangers them to gay sex should be banned.

It's worse than that. The 'gender ideology' label is an invention, intended to create a sinister-sounding bogeyman that must be opposed. There's no such thing as 'gender ideology'. There's only the recognition that trans people exist, that they have always existed, and that they should have rights that aren't contingent on pathologising or medicalising their existence. That's it. And it's not 'gender ideology': it's part of an ideology we call 'human rights'.

[Heartofice]

39 minutes ago, mormont said:

It's worse than that. The 'gender ideology' label is an invention, intended to create a sinister-sounding bogeyman that must be opposed. There's no such thing as 'gender ideology'. There's only the recognition that trans people exist, that they have always existed, and that they should have rights that aren't contingent on pathologising or medicalising their existence. That's it. And it's not 'gender ideology': it's part of an ideology we call 'human rights'.

Incorrect.

Its referred to as an ideology because it behaves like one.  It’s a set of beliefs based not on facts. To suggest that all it’s doing is saying ‘trans people exist and have rights’ is pure gaslighting.

[Varysblackfyre321]

19 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Its referred to as an ideology because it behaves like one.  It’s a set of beliefs based not on facts.

Note the lack of any hard statements on what this “ideology” prescribes.

what beliefs aren’t based on facts?

Because I’ve seen conservatives use gender ideology to describe the existence of trans people. And the acceptance of sexual minorities to do things heterosexuals can(get married for instance). And the concept of feminism.

19 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

To suggest that all it’s doing is saying ‘trans people exist and have rights’ is pure gaslighting.

This I agree with. a lot of time when people cry gender ideology it’s more inclusive to other groups the far right hates.

[Varysblackfyre321]

1 hour ago, mormont said:

It's worse than that. The 'gender ideology' label is an invention, intended to create a sinister-sounding bogeyman that must be opposed.

It’s a updated “gay agenda” 

 

[ljkeane]

Apparently the fire service were called on Friday night about a smell of gas at the Jersey flats which exploded in the early hours of Saturday morning. That's not great.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 hours ago, mormont said:

It's worse than that. The 'gender ideology' label is an invention, intended to create a sinister-sounding bogeyman that must be opposed. There's no such thing as 'gender ideology'. 

I agree with the overall point you're making, but this specifically happens all the time. To this day I believe I coined the phrase "policy mandate inflation," intending it to sound as bad as I could. 

[BigFatCoward]

3 hours ago, ljkeane said:

Apparently the fire service were called on Friday night about a smell of gas at the Jersey flats which exploded in the early hours of Saturday morning. That's not great.

If people knew how badly emergency services are serving the public you would be horrified. 

We regularly parade less than half of minimum strength, and the ones who are on duty are on their knees. 20 years ago people would fight for overtime, now we cant even give it away despite the cost of living crisis. 

[mormont]

1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

If people knew how badly emergency services are serving the public you would be horrified. 

We regularly parade less than half of minimum strength, and the ones who are on duty are on their knees. 20 years ago people would fight for overtime, now we cant even give it away despite the cost of living crisis. 

I get this. It's part of a wider picture in public services over the last two decades: increasing demands, pay erosion, media criticism (some merited, some not) and ministers, who should be defending you, blaming you instead. Add the fact that we've spent now several years dealing with crisis after crisis, so everyone is exhausted, and that any attempt to stand up for yourself just gets you pilloried in the right wing press and from the Tory front bench. That includes police, fire, and health services, sure, but also any level and branch of education, social services, civil service, transport, criminal law.

Things have to change. And the Tory party has shown they've nothing to contribute to that process.