Realistically, what would have happened if Renly had killed Stannis at Storm’s End?

[Alden Rothack]

2 hours ago, frenin said:

Maegi or not, there is little he can do against a 90k army

Renly has 20k at SE and 60k at bitterbidge, Stannis would have 5k at SE and 15k-20k at Bitterbidge

People have won against longer odds (Henry V and King Baldwin both did)

[frenin]

32 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

and 15k-20k at Bitterbidge

The Reach army doesn't flee, they just crumble before Stannis's godhood.

 

33 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

People have won against longer odds (Henry V and King Baldwin both did)

Far far far far more people have lost tho.

Stannis himself was trampled at the Blackwater.

 

[Alden Rothack]

47 minutes ago, frenin said:

The Reach army doesn't flee, they just crumble before Stannis's godhood.

 

Far far far far more people have lost tho.

Stannis himself was trampled at the Blackwater.

 

He still got clear even when outnumbered four to one

[Rondo]

16 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

Let’s assume that the shadowbaby failed somehow, so Stannis was left with just five thousand men facing twenty thousand knights and horsemen. Renly’s battle plan is carried out, and Stannis dies with a sword in hand. What then? What do Tywin and Robb and Tyrion and Varys and Balon and Doran and the rest do differently? Would Renly be able to take the throne for himself? Would he be able to keep it?

They will have to accept Renly as king.  The Lannisters will negotiate a surrender of King's Landing and bargain for the lives of Cersei, Jaime, Joff, Myrcella, and Tommen.  

[Corvo the Crow]

4 hours ago, frenin said:

Maegi or not, there is little he can do against a 90k army.

 

He can take the city before that not so 90 k army arrives. He can retreat in good order before they arrive and preserve his men. He can do a lot of things with visions.

[Craving Peaches]

35 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

He can take the city before that not so 90 k army arrives

How can he take the city in this scenario when he failed to take the city in the books while having more men and facing less? If Stannis can't take King's Landing with 30,000 men against 60,000, how can he take it with ~5000 (assuming all his men escape, which is unlikely) against ~90,000? I'm confused.

[Canon Claude]

56 minutes ago, Rondo said:

They will have to accept Renly as king.  The Lannisters will negotiate a surrender of King's Landing and bargain for the lives of Cersei, Jaime, Joff, Myrcella, and Tommen.  

You think Renly would bother with bargaining? 

[Alden Rothack]

3 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

You think Renly would bother with bargaining? 

No and he'd lose half his army to wildfire because of it

[Craving Peaches]

If the riots in the city get any worse, which they will do in this scenario, the people might open the gates to Renly.

[Alden Rothack]

2 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

If the riots in the city get any worse, which they will do in this scenario, the people might open the gates to Renly.

Then cersei fires the whole city

[Corvo the Crow]

1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

How can he take the city in this scenario when he failed to take the city in the books while having more men and facing less? If Stannis can't take King's Landing with 30,000 men against 60,000, how can he take it with ~5000 (assuming all his men escape, which is unlikely) against ~90,000? I'm confused.

Wasn’t that quote of 90.000 referring to Lannister-Tyrell army? So he has 20.000 Men.

In either scenario, he could’ve done it in numerous ways. For example he can slip in “twenty good men” the way Barristan got in, make them open a gate or slip in even more men through postern gates before the attack and use his advantage of better men(his men are mostly mercenaries so better experience) to quickly take the city. Even behind walls a lot of the gold cloaks tried to desert, if the gates were opened it would be over. People forget that Stannis needs to take the city, not hold it. He can get in, take hostages and valuables and get out and he’s still in a better off position than before.

 

He doesn’t need to fight anyone at this point. He can retreat back to DS and wait it out, no one has any fleets to pose a threat.

 

 

 

 

[astarkchoice]

Lets see

Lets.say renlys huge entourage picks up a wandering maegi who protects renly etc

 

The following morning unless he had somw.brillaint suprise set up.stannis is overwhelmed and killed, renly grieves him and offers clemency to anyone remaining who bends the knee (the fire worshippers will need to be exterminated) he then rides back quickly to bitterbridge where his force is encamped and marches on the captial.

 

In kl things pretty much pan out the same leading up as tyrion is smarter than cersi plus his siezure of the goldcloaks command, his savages and bronns sellswords mean he has control of the capital.

The capital is besieged with tywin not stupid enough to engage renlys huge host direct will try and break the siege by marching from harrenhall to attack the siege from outside

 

The question now is both with littlefinger and  the red wedding planners!

With tywin set to lose its unlikely roose and walder go ahead with any plans tywin may or may not have already been reachkng out with even with the ironborn still attacking

Littlefinger will also sense the way thw winds blowing and suddenly lysa arryn will remember who her family is and the vale joins the war.

Rob can take most of his force north and the riverlands and some northerners can harass tywins attempt to break kl siege...suprising his forces or simply making a siege counter attack out of the question

[Craving Peaches]

11 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Wasn’t that quote of 90.000 referring to Lannister-Tyrell army? So he has 20.000 Men.

In either scenario, he could’ve done it in numerous ways. For example he can slip in “twenty good men” the way Barristan got in, make them open a gate or slip in even more men through postern gates before the attack and use his advantage of better men(his men are mostly mercenaries so better experience) to quickly take the city. Even behind walls a lot of the gold cloaks tried to desert, if the gates were opened it would be over. People forget that Stannis needs to take the city, not hold it. He can get in, take hostages and valuables and get out and he’s still in a better off position than before.

Stannis failed to take the city when he had ~30,000 men and his enemy had ~60,000. This time, Stannis only has ~5000 at best assuming he retreats from fighting Renly with all his men, at which point, if he did manage to take the city, he would have to face ~90,000 men. So I don't see how in this scenario he could take and hold the city when he'd didn't manage with better odds.

[Craving Peaches]

1 hour ago, Alden Rothack said:

Then cersei fires the whole city

Then she kills herself, Tyrion and Joffrey, as well as making the Lannisters look worse than Aerys, which makes Renly look way better in comparison, given the Lannisters have just incinerated the capital of the continent and killed their own king.

[Corvo the Crow]

8 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Stannis failed to take the city when he had ~30,000 men and his enemy had ~60,000. This time, Stannis only has ~5000 at best assuming he retreats from fighting Renly with all his men, at which point, if he did manage to take the city, he would have to face ~90,000 men. So I don't see how in this scenario he could take and hold the city when he'd didn't manage with better odds.

Again, as I said he needs to take but not hold.

And no he won’t face 90.000 because unless Cressen gives away the secrets of teleportation to Renly’s army -something he won’t do because he’s Stannnis’ men- there aren’t 90.000 men in the city that Stannis needs to fight. 
If you know another who can give secrets of teleportation to Renly, I don’t know.

[Canon Claude]

5 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Then she kills herself, Tyrion and Joffrey, as well as making the Lannisters look worse than Aerys, which makes Renly look way better in comparison, given the Lannisters have just incinerated the capital of the continent and killed their own king.

And Renly would also possibly die in the blast, along with Brienne, Loras, etc.

And Cersei would definitely do it, too, be damned the consequences. She’s never cared about other people’s problems beyond a few her own family.

[Craving Peaches]

35 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

And Renly would also possibly die in the blast, along with Brienne, Loras, etc.

And Cersei would definitely do it, too, be damned the consequences. She’s never cared about other people’s problems beyond a few her own family.

I thought it was a scenario where Cersei kills everyone because the peasants are revolting against Lannister rule. So before Renly gets there. Obviously if it happens when he's there he dies along with everyone else. But if it's a scenario where Renly is still besieging the capital from afar and Cersei kills everyone when the starving peasants try to storm the Red Keep or something...

[astarkchoice]

36 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

And Renly would also possibly die in the blast, along with Brienne, Loras, etc.

And Cersei would definitely do it, too, be damned the consequences. She’s never cared about other people’s problems beyond a few her own family.

Tyrion wont allow cersei to burn the city though ! Before the siege between bronns sellswords , his savages (although they left) and his control of the goldcloaks  he had basicaly utter control of the city.

[Alden Rothack]

1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

Then she kills herself, Tyrion and Joffrey, as well as making the Lannisters look worse than Aerys, which makes Renly look way better in comparison, given the Lannisters have just incinerated the capital of the continent and killed their own king.

yes but this is cersei, she will burn the city rather than give it, killing Tyrion and half the Tyrell army is a huge bonus in her eyes

 

54 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

Tyrion wont allow cersei to burn the city though ! Before the siege between bronns sellswords , his savages (although they left) and his control of the goldcloaks  he had basicaly utter control of the city.

only the clansman are actually loyalt to him personally, he can't stop her particularly as the Pyromancers want to use the substance

[Craving Peaches]

1 minute ago, Alden Rothack said:

yes but this is cersei, she will burn the city rather than give it, killing Tyrion and half the Tyrell army is a huge bonus in her eyes

I know. Cersei is the biggest narcissist in the books.